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Subject: SOKKER REVOLUTION! JOIN THE MOVEMENT & SIGN UP
Why would you think users will quit here and only join his game? If he makes the game and get people from here to try his game and it turns out better than current one we have a new option and people can choose if they want this here or his game. If it turns out worse we have this game right here that aint gonna be going anywhere(as you said). Personally i would like a bit more in exchange from my time invested in a browsergame than just fixing the downtime which was most probably a server sided problem which means it was the server hosting company who fixed it not the game owners.
It does not guarantee him a success if he makes the game and it is gonna cost him both financially and labourhours so why not lower the risks and ask for help from interested people from here?
I dont think anyone here quits Sokker just because someone is creating a new game and calls for help on it(creating a big browsergame is NOT a one persons job as you seem to suggest). Afterall, most people that are still here have been here for 10 years.
So yeah, i dont see any reason why this discussion and development about the new version or new game should be halted.
It does not guarantee him a success if he makes the game and it is gonna cost him both financially and labourhours so why not lower the risks and ask for help from interested people from here?
I dont think anyone here quits Sokker just because someone is creating a new game and calls for help on it(creating a big browsergame is NOT a one persons job as you seem to suggest). Afterall, most people that are still here have been here for 10 years.
So yeah, i dont see any reason why this discussion and development about the new version or new game should be halted.
The main problem is that his attitude is 'this game is dead, come play my new game, that is not yet made, well you can pay me to make it in advance, that would be nice' and that he isn't actually developing the game, but considers himself the brain behind the project.
kongbuur: There is no difference as long as everybody understands that it is another game we are talking about. It is NOT a revolution of Sokker. It is a deliberate attempt to make people sign up in order to leave this game and go play the other one. Allowed or not allowed, I think it's a crappy thing to do.
This is not true. Where are you getting this idea?. If he makes a new game people would try it but it doesnt mean people would stop playing this one. In my opinion, the more games like sokker around the web to choose from, the better. It forces all games to be better to stay on top.
borkos007: The main problem is that his attitude is 'this game is dead, come play my new game, that is not yet made, well you can pay me to make it in advance, that would be nice' and that he isn't actually developing the game, but considers himself the brain behind the project.
Well, we all know sokker is still alive with solid 15k+ users, healthy economy, active forums and pretty much alive in my opinion. The only downside is that its developers have abandoned it a bit.
Like I said before, this game is good as it is already, all it needs is a better layout, be more user-friendly, video tutorial and step-by-step tutorial (like most successful games I have seen around the web) and to get rid of the 5 minutes wait before watching a match for non-plus users. If the devs made this, im sure we would have a solid and constant 30k+ users.
In my opinion sokker is far from dead. All it needs is a little bit of tweakling.
(edited)
This is not true. Where are you getting this idea?. If he makes a new game people would try it but it doesnt mean people would stop playing this one. In my opinion, the more games like sokker around the web to choose from, the better. It forces all games to be better to stay on top.
borkos007: The main problem is that his attitude is 'this game is dead, come play my new game, that is not yet made, well you can pay me to make it in advance, that would be nice' and that he isn't actually developing the game, but considers himself the brain behind the project.
Well, we all know sokker is still alive with solid 15k+ users, healthy economy, active forums and pretty much alive in my opinion. The only downside is that its developers have abandoned it a bit.
Like I said before, this game is good as it is already, all it needs is a better layout, be more user-friendly, video tutorial and step-by-step tutorial (like most successful games I have seen around the web) and to get rid of the 5 minutes wait before watching a match for non-plus users. If the devs made this, im sure we would have a solid and constant 30k+ users.
In my opinion sokker is far from dead. All it needs is a little bit of tweakling.
(edited)
This is not true. Where are you getting this idea?
I think I - and others - have succeeded in explaining that he does not want to help Sokker, so I agree it sounds a little silly when I say it now, yes. Now that we know it's not Sokker, but another game. (This also applies to "it's allowed to talk about other games here" - yes, just know it is another game he's talking about in every single nation) It should reply Visconte as well: No, I have no problems with him succeeding and creating another or better game - or that ppl play 2 games at once. But that is not what he is saying.
Now I start repeating myself. I think it's easier if I qoute him. Perhaps you'll get why I reacted in the first place.
So... where do I get the idea that he says "I want to help Sokker - I want to save Sokker - I love this game - we can fix it" and so on, and not the opposite: "This sucks, who is ready to quit with me?":
Post#1:
"Lets start a revolution together!
(...)
We have helped many entrepreneurs to realise their ideas & visions whether it has been a physical or digital product.
So we have some great plans for this game! (Smallest example: Tutorials or help section should be in animated videos, not a long bunch of text), and much more.
I love this game, and back in 2008 i won the Sokker design contest with 10 years PLUS (that is still there) with my design concept. That design was never implemented by the dev team."
I get that it could be just lost in translation, but I, for one, bought the idea that this skilled and caring coder with a plan would make a revolution, renew, update, design, improve this game that he loves, THIS game. I can not be the only one who signed - or nearly signed - his petition based on that notion)
Now, having read post #1, you go to 'the campaign page' where it goes on:
Join the movement to save the community!
Yes, I want that!
We have a vision, a fresh new start, to develop a game by the community for the community. We want make it better & to grow together again.
Yes! Sokker shall rise again! Woohoo!
Lets start a Revolution!
Yeah!
A supporting community is the key behind motivated developer teams. It will not be possible without your support! Lets make it what it should've been and how we want it to be
Fantastic, Sokker will ROCK with this developer, I want to support, I want to pay! (really!)
We are interested in coders
Yes, the more the merrier - make Sokker great!
So, where do I sign?
A: I want to play the game and give feedback ('cause I cannot code)
B: I'm ready to pay
C: Crowdfunding? Maybe. But why, it's just maintaining and adding stuff... or wait, is he NOT talking about Sokker?
Hands up who signed this, thinking he meant Sokker and not some other game that doesn't exist and as such has no community to save, nothing to revolt, nothing to grow together - unless, of course, this entire community goes over there.
I actually know I'm not the only one. HERE
Edit: link
(edited)
I think I - and others - have succeeded in explaining that he does not want to help Sokker, so I agree it sounds a little silly when I say it now, yes. Now that we know it's not Sokker, but another game. (This also applies to "it's allowed to talk about other games here" - yes, just know it is another game he's talking about in every single nation) It should reply Visconte as well: No, I have no problems with him succeeding and creating another or better game - or that ppl play 2 games at once. But that is not what he is saying.
Now I start repeating myself. I think it's easier if I qoute him. Perhaps you'll get why I reacted in the first place.
So... where do I get the idea that he says "I want to help Sokker - I want to save Sokker - I love this game - we can fix it" and so on, and not the opposite: "This sucks, who is ready to quit with me?":
Post#1:
"Lets start a revolution together!
(...)
We have helped many entrepreneurs to realise their ideas & visions whether it has been a physical or digital product.
So we have some great plans for this game! (Smallest example: Tutorials or help section should be in animated videos, not a long bunch of text), and much more.
I love this game, and back in 2008 i won the Sokker design contest with 10 years PLUS (that is still there) with my design concept. That design was never implemented by the dev team."
I get that it could be just lost in translation, but I, for one, bought the idea that this skilled and caring coder with a plan would make a revolution, renew, update, design, improve this game that he loves, THIS game. I can not be the only one who signed - or nearly signed - his petition based on that notion)
Now, having read post #1, you go to 'the campaign page' where it goes on:
Join the movement to save the community!
Yes, I want that!
We have a vision, a fresh new start, to develop a game by the community for the community. We want make it better & to grow together again.
Yes! Sokker shall rise again! Woohoo!
Lets start a Revolution!
Yeah!
A supporting community is the key behind motivated developer teams. It will not be possible without your support! Lets make it what it should've been and how we want it to be
Fantastic, Sokker will ROCK with this developer, I want to support, I want to pay! (really!)
We are interested in coders
Yes, the more the merrier - make Sokker great!
So, where do I sign?
A: I want to play the game and give feedback ('cause I cannot code)
B: I'm ready to pay
C: Crowdfunding? Maybe. But why, it's just maintaining and adding stuff... or wait, is he NOT talking about Sokker?
Hands up who signed this, thinking he meant Sokker and not some other game that doesn't exist and as such has no community to save, nothing to revolt, nothing to grow together - unless, of course, this entire community goes over there.
I actually know I'm not the only one. HERE
Edit: link
(edited)
If the devs made this, im sure we would have a solid and constant 30k+ users.
But this is the kind of certainty that is closer to wishful thinking than reason...
The truth is, a revamped version of Sokker already exists. It is called Inter Football Manager, and despite the thousands of downloads for the trial version (+/- as many as Sokker users), the full version only has a few hundred users.
It was also launched under the "two games are better than one" premise.
I won't discourage anyone from trying whatever they may fancy, though.
But this is the kind of certainty that is closer to wishful thinking than reason...
The truth is, a revamped version of Sokker already exists. It is called Inter Football Manager, and despite the thousands of downloads for the trial version (+/- as many as Sokker users), the full version only has a few hundred users.
It was also launched under the "two games are better than one" premise.
I won't discourage anyone from trying whatever they may fancy, though.
Kongbuur:
Firstly, you didn't want us to write in the international forums, so we moved the subject to freestyle forums, i did ask every country to do that. you considered our thread as spam otherwise, and now you ask us to move everything to a blog? (if we start a blog, its going to be our decision not yours).
We will keep this thread and others in freestyle forums going, sorry but its not your decision at all.
Me and others here mentioned this before, if you don't like the project then don't read this thread. We consider your posts as spam right now, full of misunderstandings and accusations. For example, you didn't need to analyse our campaign text and break it down to details to get an answer. It was clear from the start, i wonder if you are getting obsessed (I don't want to know your answer though).
We have been clear from the beginning that the initiative to this project has been because of sokker devs ignorance towards this community during latest years (Thats the revolution part of it). Our game is a new game inspired by sokker and some users ideas, are we clear now? I guess that you can release this subject now. Why would we want to keep bad parts of it? We want to make a better game of course together with the community.
As Visconte wrote, to develop a web-based community game would take months, and one person can't do it. But usually, someone starts the process. It takes months, and everything has to work very well for it to succeed. So everyone involved will put down a lot of working hours, everyone in the team has to contribute, and those who are part of the project will get an equal piece. We find it easier to find coders that has already been playing this kind of games, thats why we asked the community first. And it was the right decision for this kind of project. And project managers have to work harder then everyone else to make it happen.
Not everyone or every creative person has a bad agenda behind everything, so i don't really understand you. You feel stressed, like we could push out a game in a month from now and kill Sokker. Thats not our objective, and it will never be. If sokker is still here by then, when our game is out, then you can play Sokker too.
You say for example that we don't want to help sokker, as you see, our third option has been trying to get in contact with greg to remake sokker (but by experience everyone knows that this is impossible). I also offered my design before to them. And together with this community, we have tried for years with forum posts, and sk-mail. So our issues didn't just pop up last week!
Im just a creative person, interested in tech, design and football. I don't have any evil plans as you and Borkos seems to think.
Most of the users have positive and good feedback, they understand this project and its good enough for us to get some kind of energy and create a game.
You mention that the devs did take care of server issues, how do you know it was them and not the server guy as others wrote here. Of course they have to put the game online again, its a money machine that a they don't develop anymore, it just has to be up and running.
I promised myself before to not answer you anymore, i did now and it will be the last time. Stop spamming this thread if you have nothing to contribute with, i suggest that you use your time and energy on other stuff that you are interested in.
-
borkos007:
"The main problem is that his attitude is 'this game is dead, come play my new game, that is not yet made, well you can pay me to make it in advance, that would be nice' and that he isn't actually developing the game, but considers himself the brain behind the project."
Everything you wrote is just wrong, it was a collect of interest, to see if the community together with us wants to create something new. We wanted to see how many users are tired of this situation, and somewhere we hoped that the sokker developers would react to the campaign. But the only reaction are from you guys, and thats sad somehow. Imagine if they would do something about this game.
We never wrote any of this as you think in your head:
- "come play my new game"
(Not true, we don't have a game to offer users to play it)
- "well you can pay me to make it in advance"
(Not true, we asked how much users could think they could pay for PLUS IF the game was released)
- "And that he isn't actually developing the game"
Probably you don't know anything about product development, but don't you think a project manager would be part of the development? So what about the process, strategy, concept and design...? You may think that a game is only developed by coders...
- "but considers himself the brain behind the project."
No, i would be one of the team, we are already two people and one third is coming in.
The community with their brains would contribute to the rest, so they complete us.
I write the same to you, if you have anything important to add here, then you are welcome. Otherwise, don't open this thread. Thats always a choice. You dedicate time to write a post, and in the end its full of nothing really.
To the rest of contributors, keep your post coming guys, thank you. We make notes on your ideas, and work on this on the side of our real jobs.
Thank you in advance
/ila-a
(edited)
Firstly, you didn't want us to write in the international forums, so we moved the subject to freestyle forums, i did ask every country to do that. you considered our thread as spam otherwise, and now you ask us to move everything to a blog? (if we start a blog, its going to be our decision not yours).
We will keep this thread and others in freestyle forums going, sorry but its not your decision at all.
Me and others here mentioned this before, if you don't like the project then don't read this thread. We consider your posts as spam right now, full of misunderstandings and accusations. For example, you didn't need to analyse our campaign text and break it down to details to get an answer. It was clear from the start, i wonder if you are getting obsessed (I don't want to know your answer though).
We have been clear from the beginning that the initiative to this project has been because of sokker devs ignorance towards this community during latest years (Thats the revolution part of it). Our game is a new game inspired by sokker and some users ideas, are we clear now? I guess that you can release this subject now. Why would we want to keep bad parts of it? We want to make a better game of course together with the community.
As Visconte wrote, to develop a web-based community game would take months, and one person can't do it. But usually, someone starts the process. It takes months, and everything has to work very well for it to succeed. So everyone involved will put down a lot of working hours, everyone in the team has to contribute, and those who are part of the project will get an equal piece. We find it easier to find coders that has already been playing this kind of games, thats why we asked the community first. And it was the right decision for this kind of project. And project managers have to work harder then everyone else to make it happen.
Not everyone or every creative person has a bad agenda behind everything, so i don't really understand you. You feel stressed, like we could push out a game in a month from now and kill Sokker. Thats not our objective, and it will never be. If sokker is still here by then, when our game is out, then you can play Sokker too.
You say for example that we don't want to help sokker, as you see, our third option has been trying to get in contact with greg to remake sokker (but by experience everyone knows that this is impossible). I also offered my design before to them. And together with this community, we have tried for years with forum posts, and sk-mail. So our issues didn't just pop up last week!
Im just a creative person, interested in tech, design and football. I don't have any evil plans as you and Borkos seems to think.
Most of the users have positive and good feedback, they understand this project and its good enough for us to get some kind of energy and create a game.
You mention that the devs did take care of server issues, how do you know it was them and not the server guy as others wrote here. Of course they have to put the game online again, its a money machine that a they don't develop anymore, it just has to be up and running.
I promised myself before to not answer you anymore, i did now and it will be the last time. Stop spamming this thread if you have nothing to contribute with, i suggest that you use your time and energy on other stuff that you are interested in.
-
borkos007:
"The main problem is that his attitude is 'this game is dead, come play my new game, that is not yet made, well you can pay me to make it in advance, that would be nice' and that he isn't actually developing the game, but considers himself the brain behind the project."
Everything you wrote is just wrong, it was a collect of interest, to see if the community together with us wants to create something new. We wanted to see how many users are tired of this situation, and somewhere we hoped that the sokker developers would react to the campaign. But the only reaction are from you guys, and thats sad somehow. Imagine if they would do something about this game.
We never wrote any of this as you think in your head:
- "come play my new game"
(Not true, we don't have a game to offer users to play it)
- "well you can pay me to make it in advance"
(Not true, we asked how much users could think they could pay for PLUS IF the game was released)
- "And that he isn't actually developing the game"
Probably you don't know anything about product development, but don't you think a project manager would be part of the development? So what about the process, strategy, concept and design...? You may think that a game is only developed by coders...
- "but considers himself the brain behind the project."
No, i would be one of the team, we are already two people and one third is coming in.
The community with their brains would contribute to the rest, so they complete us.
I write the same to you, if you have anything important to add here, then you are welcome. Otherwise, don't open this thread. Thats always a choice. You dedicate time to write a post, and in the end its full of nothing really.
To the rest of contributors, keep your post coming guys, thank you. We make notes on your ideas, and work on this on the side of our real jobs.
Thank you in advance
/ila-a
(edited)
You may think that a game is only developed by coders...
In the case of Sokker, it was. The outcome was the online manager we like best.
In the case of Sokker, it was. The outcome was the online manager we like best.
Stop spamming this thread if you have nothing to contribute with, i suggest that you use your time and energy on other stuff that you are interested in.
Oh, El Pupe doesn't like it when you tell others what to post... :)
I am done here too. I do feel I had something to contribute with. I'm sorry you are not reading the parts where I wish you all the best with your new game. You have now very clearly stated that you want to create another game and that this community as well as the good ideas from the game will be the base of it. How that is not a hostile attempt to capture user base from Sokker, I just cannot see why you are denying. Apparently it is allowed, so good luck. I really just felt the need to tell everyone that you will not be helping sokker. And as for this:
"Firstly, you didn't want us to write in the international forums, so we moved the subject to freestyle forums, i did ask every country to do that. you considered our thread as spam otherwise, and now you ask us to move everything to a blog? (if we start a blog, its going to be our decision not yours)."
I saw your post in Danish forum. In there you told me to come to this thread. So I did that. I had nothing to do with sending you to Freestyle. But, of course, since this has absolutely nothing to do with Sokker, this is where it belongs, I agree. Same place as you would post news from Hattrick developement (which I don't get why anyone would want to do... unless they were trying to capture some Sokker users...)
As for the second part, about going to your blog, YOU said that, not me. The 4th of april, HERE
In case you feel like editing it, it's also here
I also noticed that I promised to never write again in here back on page 5. That's not working very well for me :)
But now, I'm really done. And, again, good luck, ila-a!
Edit: some spelling
(edited)
Oh, El Pupe doesn't like it when you tell others what to post... :)
I am done here too. I do feel I had something to contribute with. I'm sorry you are not reading the parts where I wish you all the best with your new game. You have now very clearly stated that you want to create another game and that this community as well as the good ideas from the game will be the base of it. How that is not a hostile attempt to capture user base from Sokker, I just cannot see why you are denying. Apparently it is allowed, so good luck. I really just felt the need to tell everyone that you will not be helping sokker. And as for this:
"Firstly, you didn't want us to write in the international forums, so we moved the subject to freestyle forums, i did ask every country to do that. you considered our thread as spam otherwise, and now you ask us to move everything to a blog? (if we start a blog, its going to be our decision not yours)."
I saw your post in Danish forum. In there you told me to come to this thread. So I did that. I had nothing to do with sending you to Freestyle. But, of course, since this has absolutely nothing to do with Sokker, this is where it belongs, I agree. Same place as you would post news from Hattrick developement (which I don't get why anyone would want to do... unless they were trying to capture some Sokker users...)
As for the second part, about going to your blog, YOU said that, not me. The 4th of april, HERE
In case you feel like editing it, it's also here
I also noticed that I promised to never write again in here back on page 5. That's not working very well for me :)
But now, I'm really done. And, again, good luck, ila-a!
Edit: some spelling
(edited)
Oh, El Pupe doesn't like it when you tell others what to post... :)
right.
right.
unless they were trying to capture some Sokker users...
what's wrong with it?
what's wrong with it?
Don Enzo: The truth is, a revamped version of Sokker already exists. It is called Inter Football Manager, and despite the thousands of downloads for the trial version (+/- as many as Sokker users), the full version only has a few hundred users.
I checked that game already and you are given 1 week to pay to stay in the game. Basically forcing people to pay to stay in a game that they still havent played well yet. Wtf?, a game like that will never succeed. Very bad idea.
Also, the layout sucks and it is not user friendly either. So its not really a "revamped" version, more like a childish crappy version lol.
You need to make people love your game first, then those who love it, will pay for it, not the other way around. At least not with internet games.
(edited)
I checked that game already and you are given 1 week to pay to stay in the game. Basically forcing people to pay to stay in a game that they still havent played well yet. Wtf?, a game like that will never succeed. Very bad idea.
Also, the layout sucks and it is not user friendly either. So its not really a "revamped" version, more like a childish crappy version lol.
You need to make people love your game first, then those who love it, will pay for it, not the other way around. At least not with internet games.
(edited)
unless they were trying to capture some Sokker users...
Can you open only a windows in your browser?
Can't you browse 2 website in the same time?
Can't you check you email, maybe having facebook open right beside, and maybe in the third window you're listening to some music and maybe with sokker open as 4th? I think you can, or if you can't, most of the people can.
So, what's wrong on trying to create something new, hopefully better than sokker, and asking people to go and try the new game?
Will all the people who's gonna try the new game be banned by sokker? I don't think so.
So why can't they (or you too) try the new game while the set the thursday trainin in sokker, or creating a new tactic for the sunday match?
Can you open only a windows in your browser?
Can't you browse 2 website in the same time?
Can't you check you email, maybe having facebook open right beside, and maybe in the third window you're listening to some music and maybe with sokker open as 4th? I think you can, or if you can't, most of the people can.
So, what's wrong on trying to create something new, hopefully better than sokker, and asking people to go and try the new game?
Will all the people who's gonna try the new game be banned by sokker? I don't think so.
So why can't they (or you too) try the new game while the set the thursday trainin in sokker, or creating a new tactic for the sunday match?
We will keep this thread and others in freestyle forums going, sorry but its not your decision at all.
Me and others here mentioned this before, if you don't like the project then don't read this thread.
Funny. It's not your decision at all whether or not people should read and react to this thread. Can you really not see the irony in the quote above? Really?
You say for example that we don't want to help sokker, as you see, our third option has been trying to get in contact with greg to remake sokker (but by experience everyone knows that this is impossible). I also offered my design before to them.
It seems that your megalomania keeps you from realizing that maybe Sokker simply doesn't need your "help". Have you for one moment wondered that your ideas were not what Sokker needed? Or was that just never a possibility for you?
You mention that the devs did take care of server issues, how do you know it was them and not the server guy as others wrote here. Of course they have to put the game online again, its a money machine that a they don't develop anymore, it just has to be up and running.
Please do provide any sort of guarantee that this will never ever happen to your own paradisiacal game.
i suggest that you use your time and energy on other stuff that you are interested in.
I for one suggest that you use your time and energy on actually making your freaking game instead of your constant whining about the well-deserved criticism you're receiving in this thread. If that's how you're going to respond to criticism in your own (theoretical) game, I already feel sorry for your (theoretical) users.
Now I will go outside and enjoy the nice weather. Later on, I will enjoy watching today's match in this game called Sokker, which still functions magnificently for me. Even later, I might check out the forums, and I might also write a few lines in whatever thread I goddamn please to participate in. Savvy?
Me and others here mentioned this before, if you don't like the project then don't read this thread.
Funny. It's not your decision at all whether or not people should read and react to this thread. Can you really not see the irony in the quote above? Really?
You say for example that we don't want to help sokker, as you see, our third option has been trying to get in contact with greg to remake sokker (but by experience everyone knows that this is impossible). I also offered my design before to them.
It seems that your megalomania keeps you from realizing that maybe Sokker simply doesn't need your "help". Have you for one moment wondered that your ideas were not what Sokker needed? Or was that just never a possibility for you?
You mention that the devs did take care of server issues, how do you know it was them and not the server guy as others wrote here. Of course they have to put the game online again, its a money machine that a they don't develop anymore, it just has to be up and running.
Please do provide any sort of guarantee that this will never ever happen to your own paradisiacal game.
i suggest that you use your time and energy on other stuff that you are interested in.
I for one suggest that you use your time and energy on actually making your freaking game instead of your constant whining about the well-deserved criticism you're receiving in this thread. If that's how you're going to respond to criticism in your own (theoretical) game, I already feel sorry for your (theoretical) users.
Now I will go outside and enjoy the nice weather. Later on, I will enjoy watching today's match in this game called Sokker, which still functions magnificently for me. Even later, I might check out the forums, and I might also write a few lines in whatever thread I goddamn please to participate in. Savvy?
They fixed it, right?
You call this fixing?? DEVs are a joke, for many years now but it is getting worse. Maybe as a staff member for a couple of years it is a bit more clear, but also non staff managers know enough about the situation ...
edit text
(edited)
You call this fixing?? DEVs are a joke, for many years now but it is getting worse. Maybe as a staff member for a couple of years it is a bit more clear, but also non staff managers know enough about the situation ...
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It is useless to tell them all those things. They have already made up their mind and don't accept other stands of views.