Subject: United States: Election Time

Maybe it got lost in translation but I didn't find as much respect for my POV in your posts as myname was able to show. I also wrote numerous times here that I peacefully accept democratically voted laws on this issue as they exist in modern democracies. Unlike you, I do not support violent protests regardless of the side they support. Still, I retain my right to make peaceful protests and lobby for my POV as I believe it to be right.

No, they are the same fundamental laws. If nobody can kill you because you have the right to chose to live or not, then nobody can forbid you to commit suicide. This is all non-initiation of violence.

and how do you accord this with war or capital sentence?
both provided by state, both against your "fondamental law".
There's no fondamental anything. We do what we want to.

So if you want to convince me of something, better not talk about good and wrong, law rights or natural rights, fundamental principles and positive laws.
You better convince me that what you say is what i want/need/prefer/like. without any aura of go(o)dness around!

Sorry but when someone else call me killer, then i chose to have any respect at all anymore too... ;-)

After, i respect your choices... As i said, there are not mine and i always be there (at least as much as i can) to fight with your POV... Using violence if needed ;-)... You don't care, you will have an eternity life :-) (here again i may say i tease you otherwise i would n't know what i have to read about you )

Now, that's a lie. I never insulted anyone here and I never called anyone a killer. Quote me if you can cause you can't. I don't judge people. God will do that. I only said that abortion means killing a person. A soldier also kills people but saying that doesn't mean calling any soldier personally a killer. Executioner of a death penalty also kills, doctor who performs euthanasia also kills. Did I just call all of them killers?

And about violence. Violent people always say that they needed to be violent. And Catholics do turn the other cheek but they also have only one other cheek to turn.
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and how do you accord this with war or capital sentence?
both provided by state, both against your "fondamental law".

Well, starting a war and capital punishment are a violation of the non-initiation of violence (=right on life).

So if you want to convince me of something

I have no intention like that whatsoever as it seems you refuse to understand the difference between moral and legal rights and the fact that everyone's POV is based on the moral rights he values.

Here : p22

An embryo will have a life unless an unforeseen accident occurs. A sperm or an ovum will not. So, a forcible termination of an embryo's life is also a termination of that person's unforeseeable future life. That is actually murder. Being legal or not, it's a death penalty.

And here p25 :

(edited)

I don't judge people
No you obviously don't...

i´d like to know what the against-abort people would say if their mother or daughter or sister gets raped, would they raise that kid? If yes i respect their choice even i dont share it, if not..pure hipocresy


anyway me support abort if there was rape or if the doctors advice the mother the fetus has big malformations



about the elections, what do you people think is the best for Europe? For economy, Obama or Romney
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yeah catholic milithants dont judge people, and they´re very funny people to party with :)

i respect ctaholic inside feeings for anyone, but not the catholic-showing aout people as: "yeah i must advice you because i love you, dont wanna you come to hell"

ultra religion guilty for many wars and trouble

I have no intention like that whatsoever as it seems you refuse to understand the difference between moral and legal rights and the fact that everyone's POV is based on the moral rights he values.

I recognize it without any problem (in reality talking about moral rights is quite useless but if you like).
I only want to take this to its consequences.
Nobody can claim it exist something everybody must accept for a superior reason/right/idea/whateveryoucallit.

for abortion the same, I don't want to hear someone claiming "fetus is man" or "fetus has rights", it is only in their head (or in their "moral right" if you prefer)

for abortion the same, I don't want to hear someone claiming "fetus is man" or "fetus has rights", it is only in their head (or in their "moral right" if you prefer)

Then get out ;-)

in reality talking about moral rights is quite useless but if you like

Talking about legal rights makes even less sense as they are there and they are undeniable. An ideological discussion has nothing to do with legal rights. It's about moral rights.

If we reject the utility of moral rights, we cannot judge about nazism, fascism or stalinism.

Are you playing dumb or what? Where did I call you a killer? Where did I call anyone a killer?

I also wrote later that I was using the wrong translation "murder" and that the right translation is homicide. Abortion is homicide. That's a simple fact. Same as the death penalty or euthanasia or a kill in war battle performed by soldiers.

What are you trying to prove here? I really don't get you...

And judging people means putting a negative value on them personally based on what they think or do even though you think their thoughts or actions are wrong. I avoid doing that in conversation and I am even quite sure that I managed to avoid it in this discussion. If simply describing what people do and defining it as wrong means judging people, then any real conversation is actually impossible without it.

you know, many embryo's die naturally in the first 8 weeks due to natural abortion...

Are you playing dumb or what?... Indeed, you are non violent... Pfff !!

Well... As you liked myname's speech (me too), is it so difficult for you to say : I consider abortion as homicide instead of abortion is homicide... 1st choice means i can easily your POV and 2nd choice means i am right and you are wrong which is violent and admit that you made a judgement here... And moreover, you add your pretentiousness by writing : "That's a simple fact"... So, here, you act like making us like dumb and you, the thruth's guide...

If you want to be seriously considered, pleae consider other equally as you... You eally made me laugh with your : i'm a very nice catholic guy,very smart, i have the truth but it hurts you...

Yes, and if i'm not wrong, it is called miscarriage ("fausse couche" in french)