Subject: Ireland Vs...

Change in schedule, next week England !

After defeating both Wales and Scotland, we are now set to claim the throne of United Kingdom next week.

I think there was no sense in playing U-21. It's not worth the injury risk to players that are still being trained. Fitzgibbon is now out for nearly 4 weeks and we've gained nothing.

Personally I see it a little differently. The NT training bonus isn't huge (5%?), but it does add up. The young players are the ones who can make the most of it, so IMO it's better to give it to them then your 26 or 28 year olds who aren't improving.

Ultimately, it depends on whether this U21 group will exceed the current 22-25 year olds. Which ever group is more promising is the group who should be playing.

Injuries are low probability events. In 6 Ireland friendlies this season, this is the first time training has been lost to injury. Denying players the training bonus for fear of lost training probably puts you further behind in the long run.

The 25 day injury to Fitzgibbon is unfortunate - but likely only costs him two trainings (21-14-7 on the next 3 Wednesday's). It's risk - reward. Getting the training bonus to those who use it best is (IMO) worth the risk.

I think it's training bonus Vs How much they lose if they get injured. The losses are much bigger than the gains, even when you factor in the odds. Personally i'd rather just play it safe and let the players pick up training at their clubs without risking them losing 4 weeks for an occasional 5% training bonus. There were maybe 4 or 5 players playing today who have a longterm future in the national team. 25% training gained, 400% lost through the injury to Fitzgibbon.

What? There is a training bonus? This is awesome :)

We shouldnt forget the fun factor of this. I still remember when a player from my club first appeared in an NT game. It is a great reward and motivation to train them more and look out for others who could be trained into NT.

With Ux games, you give manager a great reward for their hard work as you can have more players involved and provide that extra neccessary training.

That said, we are playing our first team against England next week and U21 with 4 U22 players against Estonia. I think there are two more games for me this tenure (two more than i thought).

New coach takes over after Week 1 so you've two games left.

400% lost

I think your numbers are a little wacky. :) 400% lost? He's only going to miss two trainings (at 95% per week).

Personally i'd rather just play it safe and let the players pick up training at their clubs

Players don't get injured with their clubs? :)

As a small nation, you are already trying to make up ground on other countries. It's hard to make up ground when you "play it safe".

The fun argument is also a good one. NTs are intended to build interest in the game. By playing youth matches a (potentially) different group of managers gets involved.

Experience is a lesser argument, as tactical discipline isn't a big factor (more for back players). But it doesn't hurt getting some experience on the youngsters for when they crack the line-up.

I didnt bother looking at the dates of when he can come back. Even if it's 2 weeks that's 200% loss for a 25% gain.
Players will get injured at their clubs, thats life but it's also irrelevant. Fitzgibbon wouldnt be injured if he hadnt played yesterday.
As for making up ground, we're doing fine. We have a system and most of the time we're getting the best out of the players we have.
I'm going to guess that his owner doesnt think his player getting a 25 day injury is fun. I dont think it's worth playing players who are still being trained until their talent slows down.
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Even if it's 2 weeks that's 200% loss for a 25% gain.

That ignores all the other matches this season where there were no injuries.

I'm going to guess that his owner doesnt think his player getting a 25 day injury is fun.

It's hard to say. I have a number of NT players on my team, and I enjoy watching them play. I know there is a slim chance of them getting hurt, but that's risk I inherit. In my experience, the disappointment those rare days when an injury happens is more then made up for. If this particular manager did not wish to inherit those risks, I'm fairly certain he could have found a Polish youth equivalent to Fitzgibbon. But I could be wrong. :)

I dont think it's worth playing players who are still being trained until their talent slows down.

All 5%s are not equal. 5% bonus for a 19 year old is far more significant then 5% for a 26 year old. If you want superstars - players who have an edge - then you have to take these risks.

I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince you of this. Considering my affiliation with another NT, I'm overjoyed whenever other nations waste the training bonus. I see you have a senior match next week. I'll be hoping to see lots of 26-28 year olds in the line-up. :D

It'd take 8 U-21 games without injury to pay off the current injury, assuming there were only 5 players worth training. I'm not going to bother with stats. The training players get from clubs is more than adequate.
Regarding my youths, i'm training them for the national team but i'm far happier with them being out of the picture for now. A 5% bonus is worth nothing to me, they'd need to play 20 U-21 games for it to be worth a level of training. Maybe when the U-21 squads are brought in properly it'll be worth it but for now it's largely pointless.

I'd find it worrying that you only have 4-5 players in your U21s that will impact your senior. But if that's the case, then I fully agree it isn't worthwhile. But more from a utilization perspective (give the bonus to the impact players) then a fear-of-injury perspective.

Thanks for the discussion. :) Although we are both pretty stubborn and never change each other's mind about anything, I always find it thought-provoking exploring issues with you. :D

I'm nothing if not stubborn.
The 5 player thing is just my opinion. Curley, Colleary, Fitzgibbon, Sanabria, Colbert. There are a couple of others who may be good enough at a stretch but they wont surpass what we have now and are more likely to be surpassed by other youths coming through. The concern about those 5 is that 3 are forwards and only 1 is a defender.
There are other players in the system who didnt play on Saturday, Jirka just has a different view on players.
I'm not immediatly concerned by our youth squad, although we dont have a huge supply of Defenders coming through at the moment. We are reaching a point though where i'm not sure how much more we can improve with such a small userbase. Really all we can keep doing is trying to encourage youth squads and training.

i told You few months ago, that the main reason for me to play with youth is to promote them to better teams... look on Fitzgibbon. As national hot prospect, with some games in NT he find very good team, and he will get there great traning... he never be bought for such strong club, without games in NT. Fitzgibbon isnt great player when you look on polish, italian, spanis youth, but as future NT star he is worth much more that his skills are.
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I do indeed remember that now. Still i think sticking him in the squad would have been enough to get him some attention when he went up for sale.

not exactly... there is a defference between NT player, and "mabe in the future he will be NT player". when someone see that player have some games in NT, he will pay more.