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Subject: [change] Match time for international matches
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_james to
All
Make it more reasonable. I am playing an interesting match today, and it is at 1:30. Oh wait... Sorry, it is actually TOMORROW...
Maybe match time could be somewhere in the middle, so it is a few hours earlier for the western team and few hours later for the eastern team. This would give more time for the visiting western team to set up the lineup, and the visiting eastern team could watch the game on Thursday.
Maybe match time could be somewhere in the middle, so it is a few hours earlier for the western team and few hours later for the eastern team. This would give more time for the visiting western team to set up the lineup, and the visiting eastern team could watch the game on Thursday.
Since it's world wide game have to respect the host time zone I already wake up 5h in the morning for nt on Saturdays :(
Why do you have to "respect" that? If there is a 6h difference, shift it 3 hours for both sides, and both sided can have somewhat normal match time.
well i do not understand your math but just will ask you to think for all countries in Asia in Australia in Americas .... there is no way to make proper time for them
but i also agree that some time adjustment could be made based of majority of users ..
though there is one tech details you missing it takes time to generate the games more users more games more time to generate ...
but i also agree that some time adjustment could be made based of majority of users ..
though there is one tech details you missing it takes time to generate the games more users more games more time to generate ...
so it would be allways time of normal league games of country 1. division of both teams in half or what?
that could mean that it would/could be different time for every game....i am not sure is that a good idea...
that could mean that it would/could be different time for every game....i am not sure is that a good idea...
I don't believe you could theoretically do what you say for all situations/scenarios whilst still making all games played in the same country kick off at the same time. There's too many time zones. You definitely couldn't have the same game simulated at two different times and allow one to use the extra time to set lineups.
So even if you pushed your game back 3 hours so it was 10:30pm sktime, that would mean if someone from Western Australia played someone from Colombia away (eg game was in Colombia) and that started at 10:30pm sktime, that would equate to 5:30am in the morning for the game.
I could find several timezones in between those 10:30-5:30, wouldn't be too difficult to find. You couldn't satisfy everyone under this method.
You're lucky you only have matches at 1:30 in the morning.
As an Australia side, if we played a European side in Europe, as it currently stands in most of Eastern Australia that would be like somewhere between 4:30-5:30 in the morning.
The advantage of matches is that you don't have to watch it live at the time it commences. You can avoid the result and watch it at a time that suits yourself.
You're complaining about one match that you can't see live. You have more time to set a tactic then you would if you played at home, so the only nuisance is not being able to see the match live as it happens.
Some of us have to deal with this for matches most weeks but on top of that have to deal with this kind of situation for the transfer market EVERY DAY, not just on rare occasions (which I'd argue is a lot worse then not being able to see your own match live). Want a player, tough you need to be up between 2am - 6am just to have a chance...
Anyway, back on topic, I'm not opposed for countries having different starting times to what they currently have if that suits their community more but I think that's a different issue.
Even if you decided to say allow matches in the 1 country to be held at different times, it would still be an absolute nightmare (if not impossible) to work out a starting time that suited both teams and to deal with every timezone in the world and satisify the majority. You just couldn't do it. Also that would create advantages in league matches for example between differing time zones in the same country. Australia has 5-6 time zones atm, with 3 hours separating the two extreme ends. Changing times to suit in that situation could lead to 1 match starting earlier/later then another match and if that's a title deciding round, could influence the later match tactic as they'd know what they needed to do to win the title as the other match had already been played.
If you excluded leagues and only dealt with friendlies/ NT matches etc that just gets even more complicated as you then have different sets of rules depending on the match type.
(edited)
So even if you pushed your game back 3 hours so it was 10:30pm sktime, that would mean if someone from Western Australia played someone from Colombia away (eg game was in Colombia) and that started at 10:30pm sktime, that would equate to 5:30am in the morning for the game.
I could find several timezones in between those 10:30-5:30, wouldn't be too difficult to find. You couldn't satisfy everyone under this method.
You're lucky you only have matches at 1:30 in the morning.
As an Australia side, if we played a European side in Europe, as it currently stands in most of Eastern Australia that would be like somewhere between 4:30-5:30 in the morning.
The advantage of matches is that you don't have to watch it live at the time it commences. You can avoid the result and watch it at a time that suits yourself.
You're complaining about one match that you can't see live. You have more time to set a tactic then you would if you played at home, so the only nuisance is not being able to see the match live as it happens.
Some of us have to deal with this for matches most weeks but on top of that have to deal with this kind of situation for the transfer market EVERY DAY, not just on rare occasions (which I'd argue is a lot worse then not being able to see your own match live). Want a player, tough you need to be up between 2am - 6am just to have a chance...
Anyway, back on topic, I'm not opposed for countries having different starting times to what they currently have if that suits their community more but I think that's a different issue.
Even if you decided to say allow matches in the 1 country to be held at different times, it would still be an absolute nightmare (if not impossible) to work out a starting time that suited both teams and to deal with every timezone in the world and satisify the majority. You just couldn't do it. Also that would create advantages in league matches for example between differing time zones in the same country. Australia has 5-6 time zones atm, with 3 hours separating the two extreme ends. Changing times to suit in that situation could lead to 1 match starting earlier/later then another match and if that's a title deciding round, could influence the later match tactic as they'd know what they needed to do to win the title as the other match had already been played.
If you excluded leagues and only dealt with friendlies/ NT matches etc that just gets even more complicated as you then have different sets of rules depending on the match type.
(edited)
I am talking about international matches. You wrote a lot about league matches, I am not talking about that. You saying that friendlies/NT is even more complicated, what?
You're lucky you only have matches at 1:30 in the morning.
As an Australia side, if we played a European side in Europe, as it currently stands in most of Eastern Australia that would be like somewhere between 4:30-5:30 in the morning.
With compromised match time, your team would play in Europe at 1:30, so you would be the lucky one.
Also I am not complaining about one game, I just used one example. If you check my matches you will see that I played 3 CC matches in Americas this season, last season as well.
I also played one away friendly with a team from Cuba, I am not doing that again. If a certain player gets injured, I can't change my training because I am sleeping.
Basically, you said nothing bad about the idea :)
You're lucky you only have matches at 1:30 in the morning.
As an Australia side, if we played a European side in Europe, as it currently stands in most of Eastern Australia that would be like somewhere between 4:30-5:30 in the morning.
With compromised match time, your team would play in Europe at 1:30, so you would be the lucky one.
Also I am not complaining about one game, I just used one example. If you check my matches you will see that I played 3 CC matches in Americas this season, last season as well.
I also played one away friendly with a team from Cuba, I am not doing that again. If a certain player gets injured, I can't change my training because I am sleeping.
Basically, you said nothing bad about the idea :)
that could mean that it would/could be different time for every game....i am not sure is that a good idea...
That is the downside. Only few home matches would be played at standard time (NT 12:00, CC 19:30, Friendlies 19:30, if I'm correct about these).
But match time of away matches would be much more acceptable.
That is the downside. Only few home matches would be played at standard time (NT 12:00, CC 19:30, Friendlies 19:30, if I'm correct about these).
But match time of away matches would be much more acceptable.
Also I am not complaining about one game, I just used one example. If you check my matches you will see that I played 3 CC matches in Americas this season, last season as well.
because you high rank and you are seeded to play away maybe seeded teams needs to e hosts in that competition :)
or lower your rank :)
because you high rank and you are seeded to play away maybe seeded teams needs to e hosts in that competition :)
or lower your rank :)
but somethings could be improved.
For example, a match between europe and america could be 3 hrs earlier for america and 3 hrs later for europe, it doesnt matter who is local, same between asia and europe
For asia time zone vs america should find another way....
For example, a match between europe and america could be 3 hrs earlier for america and 3 hrs later for europe, it doesnt matter who is local, same between asia and europe
For asia time zone vs america should find another way....
I am talking about international matches. You wrote a lot about league matches, I am not talking about that. You saying that friendlies/NT is even more complicated, what?
I know what you were talking about and it was what I was trying to get at. I think you missed my point in regards to the complexity where I specifically said
"I don't believe you could theoretically do what you say for all situations/scenarios whilst still making all games played in the same country kick off at the same time. "
That is currently all matches played in the country commence at the same time. Should this be the way forward in your idea, then that becomes almost impossible to find a single match starting time that would be suitable against someone from any other country.
However, I later went on to discuss the other option which was if matches held in the same country didn't start at the same time but varied based on the opponent's country. That was not in the paragraph you're quoting here.
In any case, even in this later situation I don't think it would be efficient to program match scheduling. You'd suddenly have more conditions to deal with before scheduling the match. The other factor is who decides what the time should be? If you're going to move the times it needs to be beneficial to both parties otherwise why pursue the time/cost and effort to develop this when matches can be viewed at a later date anyway.
So I'm not sure how it's setup but I'd be guessing there's some form of lookup table whereby each country has a designated time. Then a match time for a game is determined by finding the home team's country and then using the lookup table. This would be repeatable across all matches. If instead we allow matches in the same host country but against different international opposition to have a different starting time, instead of looking simply for the home team's country and there's your time, you'd likely now also need to pick up the away team's country as well so it's double the input variables and the lookup table becomes larger. How isn't that more complex?
In terms of the references to friendlies/NT's and Champions Cup I mentioned those because these are the only match types where international opponents can exist.
With compromised match time, your team would play in Europe at 1:30, so you would be the lucky one.
I have no idea how you came up with Australian sides playing in Europe at 1:30am my time, unless you were suggesting that a match in Europe against an Australian side had a different time to a match in Europe against a South American side.
Assuming you meant the latter I addressed that as a later point in the 2nd last paragraph.
That being said, why would I want to play against a European side at 1:30am my time. Like how does it make it any better for either side then. 1:30am may as well be 5:30am my time (the current time of matches) given it would be a weekday so it doesn't even make a difference there. 3:30pm in the afternoon wouldn't be noticeably better for Europe either during the week. All that happens is you end up with each side having 3hrs less time for tactics and the match barely changes from what it is currently.
That and then you've then had to expend all the effort into developing this for no significant improvement in this case. Had this been something better, like shifting our games to be something like 9:30pm our time instead of 5:30am, how does that benefit Europe? Games suddenly on 11:30am on a weekday and you get several less hours to make a tactic so would have to finalise your tactic likely the night before.
Even if you could come up with something that worked for one situation, could you do it for every timezone. That's a lot of effort there.
Basically, you said nothing bad about the idea :)
I didn't say it was bad, I just said I didn't think it would really be feasible. I think for the small gain some may get (even if it was even at all remotely possible), you'd lose efficiency and the effort to go into coding this wouldn't be worth it on a cost/benefit assessment. There's a reason games like sokker don't do as your idea is.
That being said, if you can go through the list of all countries and determine suitable times in sk-time that every possible combination can occur I'd be willing to reconsider, but I don't think it's suitable.
If a certain player gets injured, I can't change my training because I am sleeping.
I can see this point and sympathise. I have the same problem with trying to buy players from the transfer market because most market activity occurs during my sleeping hours. That happens every day, not once or twice a season. That impacts both buying of players and selling of players. This is a 100% probability of it being a problem on a daily basis.
So in your case, the chance of firstly playing a game in that unfortunate time slot and then secondly having a player injured is fairly low (yes it happens and that's unfortunate) but I doubt that would happen very often.
To fix that solution, you should have a day between your last match for the week and when training occurs. That would resolve that situation and would be a better idea then fumbing around with changing match times just to avoid that situation from occurring.
I know what you were talking about and it was what I was trying to get at. I think you missed my point in regards to the complexity where I specifically said
"I don't believe you could theoretically do what you say for all situations/scenarios whilst still making all games played in the same country kick off at the same time. "
That is currently all matches played in the country commence at the same time. Should this be the way forward in your idea, then that becomes almost impossible to find a single match starting time that would be suitable against someone from any other country.
However, I later went on to discuss the other option which was if matches held in the same country didn't start at the same time but varied based on the opponent's country. That was not in the paragraph you're quoting here.
In any case, even in this later situation I don't think it would be efficient to program match scheduling. You'd suddenly have more conditions to deal with before scheduling the match. The other factor is who decides what the time should be? If you're going to move the times it needs to be beneficial to both parties otherwise why pursue the time/cost and effort to develop this when matches can be viewed at a later date anyway.
So I'm not sure how it's setup but I'd be guessing there's some form of lookup table whereby each country has a designated time. Then a match time for a game is determined by finding the home team's country and then using the lookup table. This would be repeatable across all matches. If instead we allow matches in the same host country but against different international opposition to have a different starting time, instead of looking simply for the home team's country and there's your time, you'd likely now also need to pick up the away team's country as well so it's double the input variables and the lookup table becomes larger. How isn't that more complex?
In terms of the references to friendlies/NT's and Champions Cup I mentioned those because these are the only match types where international opponents can exist.
With compromised match time, your team would play in Europe at 1:30, so you would be the lucky one.
I have no idea how you came up with Australian sides playing in Europe at 1:30am my time, unless you were suggesting that a match in Europe against an Australian side had a different time to a match in Europe against a South American side.
Assuming you meant the latter I addressed that as a later point in the 2nd last paragraph.
That being said, why would I want to play against a European side at 1:30am my time. Like how does it make it any better for either side then. 1:30am may as well be 5:30am my time (the current time of matches) given it would be a weekday so it doesn't even make a difference there. 3:30pm in the afternoon wouldn't be noticeably better for Europe either during the week. All that happens is you end up with each side having 3hrs less time for tactics and the match barely changes from what it is currently.
That and then you've then had to expend all the effort into developing this for no significant improvement in this case. Had this been something better, like shifting our games to be something like 9:30pm our time instead of 5:30am, how does that benefit Europe? Games suddenly on 11:30am on a weekday and you get several less hours to make a tactic so would have to finalise your tactic likely the night before.
Even if you could come up with something that worked for one situation, could you do it for every timezone. That's a lot of effort there.
Basically, you said nothing bad about the idea :)
I didn't say it was bad, I just said I didn't think it would really be feasible. I think for the small gain some may get (even if it was even at all remotely possible), you'd lose efficiency and the effort to go into coding this wouldn't be worth it on a cost/benefit assessment. There's a reason games like sokker don't do as your idea is.
That being said, if you can go through the list of all countries and determine suitable times in sk-time that every possible combination can occur I'd be willing to reconsider, but I don't think it's suitable.
If a certain player gets injured, I can't change my training because I am sleeping.
I can see this point and sympathise. I have the same problem with trying to buy players from the transfer market because most market activity occurs during my sleeping hours. That happens every day, not once or twice a season. That impacts both buying of players and selling of players. This is a 100% probability of it being a problem on a daily basis.
So in your case, the chance of firstly playing a game in that unfortunate time slot and then secondly having a player injured is fairly low (yes it happens and that's unfortunate) but I doubt that would happen very often.
To fix that solution, you should have a day between your last match for the week and when training occurs. That would resolve that situation and would be a better idea then fumbing around with changing match times just to avoid that situation from occurring.
Again you talk about league matches...
"I don't believe you could theoretically do what you say for all situations/scenarios whilst still making all games played in the same country kick off at the same time. "
I have no idea what are you talking about? Can you elaborate, what do you think that my idea is? I am talking about international matches, they don't start at the same time anyway.
I have no idea how you came up with Australian sides playing in Europe at 1:30am my time
Dude, I am talking about my idea...
That being said, why would I want to play against a European side at 1:30am my time.
Then why did you say that I'm the lucky one for having a match at 1:30? Downplaying my issues with the game?
I guess you gave your input. But honestly, I would be happier with -1 :)
"I don't believe you could theoretically do what you say for all situations/scenarios whilst still making all games played in the same country kick off at the same time. "
I have no idea what are you talking about? Can you elaborate, what do you think that my idea is? I am talking about international matches, they don't start at the same time anyway.
I have no idea how you came up with Australian sides playing in Europe at 1:30am my time
Dude, I am talking about my idea...
That being said, why would I want to play against a European side at 1:30am my time.
Then why did you say that I'm the lucky one for having a match at 1:30? Downplaying my issues with the game?
I guess you gave your input. But honestly, I would be happier with -1 :)
-1
It is the meaning of local advantage, move the time for help european users is selfish.
When you play in your home the game starts arround 18 or 19 hours, in Americas for example that time is midday, for CC is Thursday midday, most of users are working or busy.
1:30h is 18 or 19 here in Americas, lot of users are in their houses or they are in free time to see the game and play.
Even if you try to find a middle point you won't find it, because the best hours for us never be the same for you, and this comparing only America and Europe excluding Asian users, so the ecuation is more complex.
For NT senior team is moreless ok between Americas and Europe, the game hostings in Americas is arround 17h and 19h (midday for us, afternoon for you), But when we play against Eastern Europe team we need to wake up at 4 or 5h, but is Saturday free day in much cases, we can follow games at midday or wake up earlier.
For U21 you can't do the same because is Friday, being U21 manager in Americas and playing against European user, we need to do the tactic on Thursday night because we are busy when the game starts at midday. Only when we are hosting we can do the tactic and analize the game the same day with calm.
In conclusion, in my opinion the game is working fine how is it now. It is balanced, advantage for the home team.
It is the meaning of local advantage, move the time for help european users is selfish.
When you play in your home the game starts arround 18 or 19 hours, in Americas for example that time is midday, for CC is Thursday midday, most of users are working or busy.
1:30h is 18 or 19 here in Americas, lot of users are in their houses or they are in free time to see the game and play.
Even if you try to find a middle point you won't find it, because the best hours for us never be the same for you, and this comparing only America and Europe excluding Asian users, so the ecuation is more complex.
For NT senior team is moreless ok between Americas and Europe, the game hostings in Americas is arround 17h and 19h (midday for us, afternoon for you), But when we play against Eastern Europe team we need to wake up at 4 or 5h, but is Saturday free day in much cases, we can follow games at midday or wake up earlier.
For U21 you can't do the same because is Friday, being U21 manager in Americas and playing against European user, we need to do the tactic on Thursday night because we are busy when the game starts at midday. Only when we are hosting we can do the tactic and analize the game the same day with calm.
In conclusion, in my opinion the game is working fine how is it now. It is balanced, advantage for the home team.
It's like irl isn'it? Only for away nt world cup match.
BUT it were better if hour was known as soon as the match is programmed. Here we read the hour only the day of the match. We have to search old home games of the vs team to find his usal hour's match ... Not very difficult but it's very bad if we forget that, sometimes match is over, specially when Europ nt team play against asian team ( not often time, for sure ...)
BUT it were better if hour was known as soon as the match is programmed. Here we read the hour only the day of the match. We have to search old home games of the vs team to find his usal hour's match ... Not very difficult but it's very bad if we forget that, sometimes match is over, specially when Europ nt team play against asian team ( not often time, for sure ...)
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