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Subject: Is Sokker dying?
Accelerating training would influence distribution of players. You would have too many top skill players and talent would become less important. You would do this:
Let's say that -1 = tragic and 1 = superdivine average player's skill. And let's also say that now we have normal (black N=0) distribution. It's probably not like that exactly but it should be very close.
If you accelerate training, you would only turn black curve into green, blue or red, depending on how much you accelerate training. That would be boring. There would be too many top skill players.
What you want should be accomplished by deleting excessively (and not even fun) weak skills 0-7 and then redistributing levels 8-18 between 0-18 again. So, solid [8] becomes tragic [0] and superdivine [18] remains the same and the rest gets distributed evenly between 0 and 18.
This way we would keep the normal distribution of players and the currently ok training dynamics but the weak players would become stronger. This way newbies would become competitive sooner and remain playing sokker because they would never lose 25:0 and conclude "This is not football. I am going to look for football someplace else." Also, it wouldn't take 3 years for the game to become exciting enough to continue playing it.
And yes, this wouldn't be fair to those playing the game for 6+ years. Unfortunately, those older users have become the base of this game which we can see from the number of users graph. We are now back at number of users from 2009 and this will only keep going further down. I make financial projections for a living and I can tell you that this one is currently a sure bet.
The future of this game depends on how new users react to it and not what users of 6+ years experience think about it.
(edited)
Let's say that -1 = tragic and 1 = superdivine average player's skill. And let's also say that now we have normal (black N=0) distribution. It's probably not like that exactly but it should be very close.
If you accelerate training, you would only turn black curve into green, blue or red, depending on how much you accelerate training. That would be boring. There would be too many top skill players.
What you want should be accomplished by deleting excessively (and not even fun) weak skills 0-7 and then redistributing levels 8-18 between 0-18 again. So, solid [8] becomes tragic [0] and superdivine [18] remains the same and the rest gets distributed evenly between 0 and 18.
This way we would keep the normal distribution of players and the currently ok training dynamics but the weak players would become stronger. This way newbies would become competitive sooner and remain playing sokker because they would never lose 25:0 and conclude "This is not football. I am going to look for football someplace else." Also, it wouldn't take 3 years for the game to become exciting enough to continue playing it.
And yes, this wouldn't be fair to those playing the game for 6+ years. Unfortunately, those older users have become the base of this game which we can see from the number of users graph. We are now back at number of users from 2009 and this will only keep going further down. I make financial projections for a living and I can tell you that this one is currently a sure bet.
The future of this game depends on how new users react to it and not what users of 6+ years experience think about it.
(edited)
You forget to mention 1 important thing and that's the skills aren't linear. By taking away skills tragic [0] to solid [8], players that will be, for example, very good [9] in your idea will be almost as good as the current skill brilliant [14] or magical [15]. So in division 3, 4 and lower all players can and will become almost as strong as players in the top divisions and that's absolutely not realistic.
And also the game will change to much if you ask me. All of the sudden ATTs will become to good in passing, even if they have only weak [4] passing skill, MIDs will become to good in scoring with only weak [4] striker etc. And this isn't only not realistic anymore, but will also have to much impact on the game Sokker as to much will change.
A metaphor: If F1 is going to change the rules every car has to be about the same, I can stop watching it and start watching IndyCar Series.
I too think 25-0 in the lower divisions isn't fun or realistic and should be changed and will scare new managers away when it happens to them. But I would like the change, not with your idea as it won't be realistic anymore, but by spreading out the managers a bit more so more equal teams will face eachother. Go from x4 divisions to x3 divisions, and more direct promotion instead of to many p/m matches, like this:
Divisions x3
Division 1 – 1 league (8 teams)
Division 2 – 3 leagues (24 teams)
Division 3 – 9 leagues (71 teams)
Division 4 – 27 leagues (216 teams)
Division 5 – 81 leagues (648 teams)
Division 6 – 243 leagues (1944 teams)
Division 7 – 729 leagues (5832 teams)
Division 8 – 2187 leagues (17496 teams)
And then for example the best 66% numbers 1 promote directly, the other 33% numbers 1 play P/D matches. So this will mean the numbers 7 and 8 degrade directly and the numbers 6 play P/D matches.
This way many countries will get only 1 more extra division (even Poland will only go from 7 to 8 divisions) and that is acceptable. And I think this will make the gap between divisions a bit smaller so when teams promote they don't have play against way to strong teams in that next division after promotion. And because there are less teams in each division, the bottom league will have more active leagues with less botteams as many botteams can be deleted.
And also the game will change to much if you ask me. All of the sudden ATTs will become to good in passing, even if they have only weak [4] passing skill, MIDs will become to good in scoring with only weak [4] striker etc. And this isn't only not realistic anymore, but will also have to much impact on the game Sokker as to much will change.
A metaphor: If F1 is going to change the rules every car has to be about the same, I can stop watching it and start watching IndyCar Series.
I too think 25-0 in the lower divisions isn't fun or realistic and should be changed and will scare new managers away when it happens to them. But I would like the change, not with your idea as it won't be realistic anymore, but by spreading out the managers a bit more so more equal teams will face eachother. Go from x4 divisions to x3 divisions, and more direct promotion instead of to many p/m matches, like this:
Divisions x3
Division 1 – 1 league (8 teams)
Division 2 – 3 leagues (24 teams)
Division 3 – 9 leagues (71 teams)
Division 4 – 27 leagues (216 teams)
Division 5 – 81 leagues (648 teams)
Division 6 – 243 leagues (1944 teams)
Division 7 – 729 leagues (5832 teams)
Division 8 – 2187 leagues (17496 teams)
And then for example the best 66% numbers 1 promote directly, the other 33% numbers 1 play P/D matches. So this will mean the numbers 7 and 8 degrade directly and the numbers 6 play P/D matches.
This way many countries will get only 1 more extra division (even Poland will only go from 7 to 8 divisions) and that is acceptable. And I think this will make the gap between divisions a bit smaller so when teams promote they don't have play against way to strong teams in that next division after promotion. And because there are less teams in each division, the bottom league will have more active leagues with less botteams as many botteams can be deleted.
Oh, and new managers should be informed/taught much better as they are now, so they know what to do and not just doing things that won't help them to become any better/competitive. And no, the rules and the instructions that are send to them at the moment aren't really helping them. They need to know much more of how to spend their money on the right skilled (young) players and coaches and also how to make the best tactics and lineups.
Something like the tutorial I wrote: How to get started with Sokker tutorial.
(edited)
Something like the tutorial I wrote: How to get started with Sokker tutorial.
(edited)
That's a question of finetuning this idea. It doesn't need to be 0-7 skills deleted. It can be 0-5. The point is to reduce the current quality gap using this method. The gap is too wide atm. That is obvious based on 2 main evidence:
1. Maximum results between strongest and weakest teams.
2. Time needed to get to fun level of match quality.
To me it seems that your argument can have root in only 1 reason. You don't want that someone instantly gets players of quality you had to work your ass off to attain. I can't explain to myself why else would you like that your team can beat a newbie team by 25:0.
This change would simply shift the focus from time invested in training and trading to time invested in adapting tactics. For me, beating oponent with tactics is the most interesting aspect of this game. I am sure that most players registering also want to enjoy that aspect of the game. Currently, when they come here everyone tells them to first spend ages training and trading and so they give up. Not everyone is as patient as you and me and not everyone likes online football managers that much to persist in that. ;)
1. Maximum results between strongest and weakest teams.
2. Time needed to get to fun level of match quality.
To me it seems that your argument can have root in only 1 reason. You don't want that someone instantly gets players of quality you had to work your ass off to attain. I can't explain to myself why else would you like that your team can beat a newbie team by 25:0.
This change would simply shift the focus from time invested in training and trading to time invested in adapting tactics. For me, beating oponent with tactics is the most interesting aspect of this game. I am sure that most players registering also want to enjoy that aspect of the game. Currently, when they come here everyone tells them to first spend ages training and trading and so they give up. Not everyone is as patient as you and me and not everyone likes online football managers that much to persist in that. ;)
I like Sasha's idea, but Charles Hill does have a point.
It could be done in steps:
* Remove Skill 0 and redistribute like Sasha said in season 1.
* Then do this 3 more seasons, and the difference between the top and bottom leagues will be a bit smaller.
Best thing is, if this takes 4 seasons, 99% of current users will never even notice it :-)
Plus, the bottom level would be what now is "weak", but it is then called "tragic".
The highest level would remain unchanged, and the difference between the levels a little bit smaller.
Love Sasha's plan!
It could be done in steps:
* Remove Skill 0 and redistribute like Sasha said in season 1.
* Then do this 3 more seasons, and the difference between the top and bottom leagues will be a bit smaller.
Best thing is, if this takes 4 seasons, 99% of current users will never even notice it :-)
Plus, the bottom level would be what now is "weak", but it is then called "tragic".
The highest level would remain unchanged, and the difference between the levels a little bit smaller.
Love Sasha's plan!
Thank you! Nice to see that you like it and that you even improved it. I agree that it should be done gradually each year. Shock therapy is never good. Also, that way each year could also be a test to see how far, i.e. to which skill level, that process should go in the end.
I really think that reducing this player quality gap would make the game much more interesting to new users and we really need such improvements to keep this great game going.
I really think that reducing this player quality gap would make the game much more interesting to new users and we really need such improvements to keep this great game going.
To me it seems ... newbie team by 25:0.
Here you go again with your BS and assumptions. Wonder why I don't respond to your senseless posts? Don't, you know the answer already!
This change would .... persist in that. ;)
For me it's about skills AND tactics, and that is what Sokker is about. WHat you think in this case isn't important at all, the only thing important is how it is and that is skills and tactics.
Here you go again with your BS and assumptions. Wonder why I don't respond to your senseless posts? Don't, you know the answer already!
This change would .... persist in that. ;)
For me it's about skills AND tactics, and that is what Sokker is about. WHat you think in this case isn't important at all, the only thing important is how it is and that is skills and tactics.
Wonder why I don't respond to your senseless posts? Don't, you know the answer already!
No, I don't wonder why you don't answer. I know why. It's because you don't have a good answer. Otherwise you would be able to say what's so good about coming to this game, making a good tacitc and stil losing 25:0 to better teams.
For me it's about skills AND tactics, and that is what Sokker is about. WHat you think in this case isn't important at all, the only thing important is how it is and that is skills and tactics.
What a stupid reply. Of course it's about both. I don't know why you repeat the obvious. What's crucial for gameplay quality of matches is the balance between the influence of skils and tactics. I am just saying it should be more about tactics. Atm some players act like they are terminally ill on the field. That is not fun to watch. Why would I look at retarted players conceding 25 goals? There are other games too where such nonsense doesn't happen. And this happens solely because lower level skills are simply too low. They are not skills for football players but for old people who can't cross the street without help.
No, I don't wonder why you don't answer. I know why. It's because you don't have a good answer. Otherwise you would be able to say what's so good about coming to this game, making a good tacitc and stil losing 25:0 to better teams.
For me it's about skills AND tactics, and that is what Sokker is about. WHat you think in this case isn't important at all, the only thing important is how it is and that is skills and tactics.
What a stupid reply. Of course it's about both. I don't know why you repeat the obvious. What's crucial for gameplay quality of matches is the balance between the influence of skils and tactics. I am just saying it should be more about tactics. Atm some players act like they are terminally ill on the field. That is not fun to watch. Why would I look at retarted players conceding 25 goals? There are other games too where such nonsense doesn't happen. And this happens solely because lower level skills are simply too low. They are not skills for football players but for old people who can't cross the street without help.
I am interested in what users think about this idea. Please, come and give your opinion and vote at bugs/ideas forum.
Thank you
Thank you
I'm sorry, but you don't get my idea AT ALL, so will make even more simple. I don't want to remove any skill, or any player to be better or worst. I think they should train more and get older faster. If they get older double faster and train double faster, that wouldn't change their skills. In the end it just make the game faster because sokker is too slow in many aspects.
I'm just pointing that a possible sokker player life of 21 sokker seasons (from 16 to 37) is seven real yeers. It's too much, and this game loose many users in the middle their strategy because it take's too much time. Only that, no remove skill or change anything else.
I'm just pointing that a possible sokker player life of 21 sokker seasons (from 16 to 37) is seven real yeers. It's too much, and this game loose many users in the middle their strategy because it take's too much time. Only that, no remove skill or change anything else.
No, I don't wonder why you don't answer. I know why. It's because you don't have a good answer.
Is this the only thing you can write? I have given enough answers, but if they don't fit yours it are all of the sudden no 'good answers'.
I don't know why you repeat the obvious.
Because you don't understand the obvious or else you wouldn't post such things as you did about reducing skills!
Join the staff and get to know how greg thinks about changes and improvements and then start posting again about changing the game completely. You have no clue what you are asking for.
(edited)
Is this the only thing you can write? I have given enough answers, but if they don't fit yours it are all of the sudden no 'good answers'.
I don't know why you repeat the obvious.
Because you don't understand the obvious or else you wouldn't post such things as you did about reducing skills!
Join the staff and get to know how greg thinks about changes and improvements and then start posting again about changing the game completely. You have no clue what you are asking for.
(edited)
ok, i post my idea in the bug's ideas too to see if there are more people who thinks like me too.
it is like in 2005 according google trends, so sokker dying slowly but surely. check
Oh, I'm sorry. Now I get what you want. I thought that you just wanted faster training effects.
Then your idea has much more impact on the entire game. You in fact want to accelerate the whole game. But then you have to explain how. Accelerating the game means having e.g. 2 matches in a week. Or reducing number of matches in a season. We surely can't have players aging by 2 years in 1 season. You can accelerate the game in several different ways but it is not directly through training and players' age.
Then your idea has much more impact on the entire game. You in fact want to accelerate the whole game. But then you have to explain how. Accelerating the game means having e.g. 2 matches in a week. Or reducing number of matches in a season. We surely can't have players aging by 2 years in 1 season. You can accelerate the game in several different ways but it is not directly through training and players' age.
Is this the only thing you can write? I have given enough answers, but if they don't fit yours it are all of the sudden no 'good answers'.
OK. I'm sorry. Can you please quote or at least give me the page where you answered my question "What's so good about coming to this game, making a good tactic and stil losing 25:0 to better teams?" Let me add one more: "Why would an average user wait for years to start watching interesting matches?"
Because you don't understand the obvious or else you wouldn't post such things as you did about reducing skills!
Join the staff and get to know how greg thinks about changes and improvements and then start posting again about changing the game completely. You have no clue what you are asking for.
OK. I will join the staff. But I stil really don't understand why even then I should adapt my opinion to Greg's without some arguments. His game is great in some ways and in some ways it sucks terribly. One of the things that sucks the most is the maximum quality gap in skills and the time needed to start playing competitive and interesting level of matches.
But now I understand your reasoning even more. You can't see what's wrong with this game because you joined the staff and aparently the way to have discussions there is to adapt your opinion to Greg's. "Hey, great player's faces, dude!"
OK. I'm sorry. Can you please quote or at least give me the page where you answered my question "What's so good about coming to this game, making a good tactic and stil losing 25:0 to better teams?" Let me add one more: "Why would an average user wait for years to start watching interesting matches?"
Because you don't understand the obvious or else you wouldn't post such things as you did about reducing skills!
Join the staff and get to know how greg thinks about changes and improvements and then start posting again about changing the game completely. You have no clue what you are asking for.
OK. I will join the staff. But I stil really don't understand why even then I should adapt my opinion to Greg's without some arguments. His game is great in some ways and in some ways it sucks terribly. One of the things that sucks the most is the maximum quality gap in skills and the time needed to start playing competitive and interesting level of matches.
But now I understand your reasoning even more. You can't see what's wrong with this game because you joined the staff and aparently the way to have discussions there is to adapt your opinion to Greg's. "Hey, great player's faces, dude!"
You do it again!!! Lies and a allegations that aren't even true! Stop that BS, your making things up or your shortterm memory isn't working well.
"What's so good about coming to this game, making a good tactic and stil losing 25:0 to better teams?"
See this same page (page 64):
I too think 25-0 in the lower divisions isn't fun or realistic and should be changed and will scare new managers away when it happens to them. But I would like the change, not with your idea as it won't be realistic anymore, but by spreading out the managers a bit more so more equal teams will face eachother.
"Why would an average user wait for years to start watching interesting matches?"
As an aswer in your idea on Forum Bugs / Ideas (en):
In 3 Sokker seasons they can start selling good trained players, buy ok first squad players in return, promote and be competitive in these divisions.
And it goes like this all the time, I have answered these things before, but you think I didn't. You do this on purpose or you really need to go to a doctor and let yourself check because something isn't working well. But I pretty sure you do it on purpose!!
But now I understand your reasoning even more. You can't see what's wrong with this game because you joined the staff and aparently the way to have discussions there is to adapt your opinion to Greg's. "Hey, great player's faces, dude!"
Lies and allegations that are not true at all! I already wrote my situation with greg in this topic or the other, so here you go again, same behaviour over and over and over again. And I was thinking you are not allowed to lie .... well, apparently you are a hypocrite.
(edited)
"What's so good about coming to this game, making a good tactic and stil losing 25:0 to better teams?"
See this same page (page 64):
I too think 25-0 in the lower divisions isn't fun or realistic and should be changed and will scare new managers away when it happens to them. But I would like the change, not with your idea as it won't be realistic anymore, but by spreading out the managers a bit more so more equal teams will face eachother.
"Why would an average user wait for years to start watching interesting matches?"
As an aswer in your idea on Forum Bugs / Ideas (en):
In 3 Sokker seasons they can start selling good trained players, buy ok first squad players in return, promote and be competitive in these divisions.
And it goes like this all the time, I have answered these things before, but you think I didn't. You do this on purpose or you really need to go to a doctor and let yourself check because something isn't working well. But I pretty sure you do it on purpose!!
But now I understand your reasoning even more. You can't see what's wrong with this game because you joined the staff and aparently the way to have discussions there is to adapt your opinion to Greg's. "Hey, great player's faces, dude!"
Lies and allegations that are not true at all! I already wrote my situation with greg in this topic or the other, so here you go again, same behaviour over and over and over again. And I was thinking you are not allowed to lie .... well, apparently you are a hypocrite.
(edited)