Subject: Is Sokker dying?

You do it again!!! Lies and a allegations that aren't even true! Stop that BS, your making things up or your shortterm memory isn't working well.

"What's so good about coming to this game, making a good tactic and stil losing 25:0 to better teams?"

See this same page (page 64):
I too think 25-0 in the lower divisions isn't fun or realistic and should be changed and will scare new managers away when it happens to them. But I would like the change, not with your idea as it won't be realistic anymore, but by spreading out the managers a bit more so more equal teams will face eachother.

"Why would an average user wait for years to start watching interesting matches?"

As an aswer in your idea on Forum Bugs / Ideas (en):
In 3 Sokker seasons they can start selling good trained players, buy ok first squad players in return, promote and be competitive in these divisions.

And it goes like this all the time, I have answered these things before, but you think I didn't. You do this on purpose or you really need to go to a doctor and let yourself check because something isn't working well. But I pretty sure you do it on purpose!!

But now I understand your reasoning even more. You can't see what's wrong with this game because you joined the staff and aparently the way to have discussions there is to adapt your opinion to Greg's. "Hey, great player's faces, dude!"

Lies and allegations that are not true at all! I already wrote my situation with greg in this topic or the other, so here you go again, same behaviour over and over and over again. And I was thinking you are not allowed to lie .... well, apparently you are a hypocrite.
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It's really fun to see you lose your nerve every time I "hit gold". Aparently that's how things really work in staff forums. I will not answer to your "ad hominem" attacks any more. I will try to focus on your "answers".

See this same page (page 64):
I too think 25-0 in the lower divisions isn't fun or realistic and should be changed and will scare new managers away when it happens to them. But I would like the change, not with your idea as it won't be realistic anymore, but by spreading out the managers a bit more so more equal teams will face eachother.

That's not an answer because I am not talking about being competitive only in my division. I don't want to be even further from the top to make me feel better. It's like somebody tells you "I am hungry." and you reply "Here. Go sit here with these other hungry people. It will make you feel better until we give you some food what we don't eat ourselves."

I am talking about e.g. 1st round cup matches. I will paste you lists of 1st round cup results in 2 weeks just so that you see what happens there. I want to be able to play a normal game against any team. Top teams are too strong for newbies and this sucks. And it's all because of how skill levels are currently finetuned.

As an aswer in your idea on Forum Bugs / Ideas (en):
In 3 Sokker seasons they can start selling good trained players, buy ok first squad players in return, promote and be competitive in these divisions.

And don't forget to put in your tutorials that newbies should just forget about making tactics and longterm training because the best and fastest way of succeeding in this game is to become a daytrader like BaBoLuo. That guy had 87 purchases per season. That means he could have played every league round with a totally different first lineup. And it works. He has built a great time in no time.

And that's sokker. "Bored of footbally reality?" "Want to become a broker and corner tactic expert?"

I just had a thought.



If we picture distribution of clubs by quality as a pyramid (or triangle), currently the bottom of the pyramid is too far away from the top and it takes too much time to get from the bottom to the top. This is what organisations also do to be more efficient. We need to change from organisation A to organisation B.

Problem: new players are too much far away from the top and it takes too much time to get there. Solution: flatten the pyramid.
Instrument: reduce quality gap in skills.


Please vote and give your opinion here.

question: how?

It's really fun to see you lose your nerve every time I "hit gold".

megalomania!

Aparently that's how things really work in staff forums.

And again assumptions based on absolutely nothing as you have no clue as you aren't one and never seen the topic. Ask another staff member who is active in that topic to tell you how it goes, then you know.

That's not an answer .... don't eat ourselves."

Nonsense answer.

I am talking .... are currently finetuned.

The cup is the only time way stronger teams face new teams, and the new teams loose this matches, yes sometimes with large numbers. That's really strange, I wouldn't expect that to happen when I'm new in a game ............... (????) Yeh right.

And don't forget to put in .... a great time in no time.

I don't like daytrading so I will never support that and won't put it in my tutorials. But daytrading also only works with some form of a trainingschedule as mostly only players with skillpops will be sold for more money as they are bought. So you're wrong again in your ongoing negativity and stubbornness when trying to make your points.

And that's sokker. "Bored of footbally reality?" "Want to become a broker and corner tactic expert?"

I wonder why you continue playing if it's all shit? Maybe to bring more negativity to the forum and make more managers to leave?

And again assumptions based on absolutely nothing as you have no clue as you aren't one and never seen the topic. Ask another staff member who is active in that topic to tell you how it goes, then you know.

Your quote: "Join the staff and get to know how greg thinks about changes and improvements and then start posting again about changing the game completely. You have no clue what you are asking for."

So, I am concluding that you get to know how greg thinks and then you can have clue about what's right and wrong about sokker. Of course it's an assumption and an impression but looking at what you write, it's no wonder I made it and have it.

Nonsense answer.

It's not nonsense. I am telling you that newbies want to be more competitive against the big guys (at least more than 25:0 cup matches, I think already 9:0 is a difficult enough loss) and play quality sokker because the one with average marks 25 totally sucks and you tell me that the answer is to push the newbies lower in the level of leagues so that they play against the same rubish players in the same rubish matches. I continued playing this game only because I really wanted to once play NT level sokker. Not all users are as patient as me and that's why you have so few of them. They don't like their matches.

I don't like daytrading so I will never support that and won't put it in my tutorials. But daytrading also only works with some form of a trainingschedule as mostly only players with skillpops will be sold for more money as they are bought. So you're wrong again in your ongoing negativity and stubbornness when trying to make your points.

No, I am not wrong. I also give advice to many newbies and I first tell them what you tell also. But then some say "Hey, this is f...ing a long time until I play really interesting matches. Is there a faster way?". And then I show them BaBoLuo's club and they understand imediately what's the deal. But then they also tell that it's not really fun staring at the transfer market every day and that they want to train their team, make tactics and watch matches.

I wonder why you continue playing if it's all shit? Maybe to bring more negativity to the forum and make more managers to leave?

I play it only because despite all the problems sokker is stil one of the 2 best online football managers. I use to claim that it's the best before but now I can't decide which is better between the 2. So, basically, I play it because there is nothing better out there atm but that doesn't mean that all the things I say are not true.
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you can have clue about what's right and wrong about sokker

You're filling in this conclusion yourself, based on nothing and there it goes wrong again. When did I wrote I know what is right and wrong about Sokker? I didn't. I only wrote that I know a bit more how greg thinks after I joined the staff and have read the forum and his posts. Sokker will stay about the same as this is Sokker and not some other game it will change in to. So asking for changes that will completely change Sokker into another game won't ever happen. Only ideas/suggestions within the concept of Sokker have a change to be implemented.

Besides, I think a number of things are wrong with Sokker or not working to well, and as I already wrote, when I get the chance I will tell this to greg and then hope for the best some things will change.

Not all users are as patient as me and that's why you have so few of them.

Right, and maybe this is something we just have to accept as a fact and Sokker will never become a million+ users game. We may wish it otherwise, but greg makes the final decisions, wether we like those decisions or not. And this answer also aswers most of your other things in your post I think.
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But this change wouldn't change Sokker completely. It would only "flatten the pyramid" (check the pyramid pictures again) in a sense that quality gap between clubs would be reduced. We would only have more of simmilar level clubs. Nothing else.

And I really don't care so much what Greg or other devs or you think about this idea without showing good arguments. I am writing about it because I like the idea and because I am sure that it's simple and would make Sokker a better game. I am not writing because I desperately want it to be implemented. Knowing that this is a great idea is already enough for me. I can't have any influence on someone being stupid enough to ignore good ideas and I will certainly not take other people's stupidity as a factor when discussing ideas.
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But this change wouldn't ... level clubs. Nothing else.

I've seen it and I do understand your idea but I think it will change to much as it has an effect on way to many things like the total performance of all players, also their secondary skills and the tactics and trainingschedules etc. And I think with all these changes it will change Sokker into something that isn't Sokker anymore. If new managers want an easy soccer game and easy promotions, Sokker isn't the right game to play if you ask me. It would be nice if excesses could be eliminated, but I think they will always remain somehow in online games.

And for that pyramid, I would absolutely not like to see only 2 leagues in my country.

And I really .... discussing ideas.

And I gave you a good argument. Whether you like it or not is something completely different, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good argument, only that you think it's not because you disagree.
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I just wonder would flat pyramid be fair to older users- I ve been playing 6 yrs sokker and I wasnt active equally all the time, but I invested 6 yrs in it and wouldn't like to some new founded club quickly become competitive at the same level as my club. That club/user has to give similar effort and give time plus to be patient as hell. Also I m not fan of statements like the gap is too big- of course it seems to be big if you are one-two yrs in sokker or U are fresh, but at time U get to understand that progress of top division clubs (II and I tier) is slow once they reach certain level. So it is not impossible to catch them but U have to be patient. It is like U start in RL in English bottom league soccer and complain that gap is too big with Premiership and Conference guys...
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I've seen it ... somehow in online games.

OK, I can live with that. I would like this game to be more fun sooner and attract a wider audience but I can understand that not everybody wants that. This is probably even an opinion which is currently in majority around people who decide about where the game should go.

Just for the record, the pyramid is not about organisation of leagues. Leagues are already organised flat enough. The flattened pyramid is about quality and competitiveness of clubs' players. What quantifies it best is clubs' total market value of players. Reducing gaps in skills quality would also reduce gaps in clubs' total market value of players. Differences in clubs' market values would become less. The whole Lorenz curve of clubs market values would become more flat. In economic words, Gini coefficient of clubs market values would be decreased which is good.

And I gave you a good argument. Whether you like it or not is something completely different, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good argument, only that you think it's not because you disagree.

That's only a question of who's right between me and you and in this case it isn't you. ;) I know a good argument when I see it.
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That's correct, it wouldn't be fair and I already wrote that in the first post when I mentioned this idea. But this idea is not aimed at fairness but to make the game more apealing to new users who are obviously not staying with the game long enough.

If we would have an aging structure of users for the last couple of years, I am sure that we would notice how the core of users is made up of older users and retention rates of new users are getting worse and worse.

If nobody cares about that, then yes, sokker is dying. Ok, the title of this topic is quite stupid as everything alive is dying all the time, but sokker is dying more quickly than it should. I myself as a relatively new user am also beginning to give up on it and I am spending more and more time in another online manager where I see more future and more customer oriented policy.
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But this idea is not aimed at fairness but to make the game more apealing to new users who are obviously not staying with the game long enough.

Ehh...you miss the point completely. The problem is not connected with the big difference between new users and older users - such difference exists in EVERY manager game that is older than 1 year.

It's as if your washing machine crashed and you'd suggest to change the broken light bulb in the living room...
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No, you miss the point completely. It's just too easy to relatively say "big difference" and "exists everywhere".

If you run 100m in 15 secs or in 20 secs, that is both a big difference compared to world record but I think you would stil much rather run 15 secs than 20 and if you run 20, then you are almost disabled. Of course that all online managers have such "big differences" but in some its normal 5 secs difference and in some it's excessive 10. In sokker it's 10. That's the whole story and you are relativising this fact. You can even check this in a match. Just compare a player running at tragic pace and player running as superdivine. Superdivine is 3 times faster than tragic. That means that superdivine runs 100m in 10 secs and tragic in 30. So, that skil should not be called tragic but disabled and should not be part of the game. That looks totally ridiculous and is a complete unnecessary turn off from this game.

In ManagerZone I became very soon competitive with other clubs and I never lost more than 11:0 even when I was playing juniors against top class clubs. I even Managed to luckily win against a regional cup winner after less than a year playing.

In Sokker, as a newbie, you never reach opononet's goal and you lose 25:0 to top class club even with a good tactic. That's too much for footbally and pretty much discouraging. Also, the quality of match sucks at the starting level even when played against same level clubs. They all seem as if they are retarded and not paid to play football. Those players should at least not be getting a salary but paying some fee for letting them play an organised football league.

And you still miss the point. The problem is not users who leave after 2-3-6-8 weeks because they discover that the gap is too big/they team sucks/whatever.

The problem is that most users log in once, twice or even never. Basically when they log in and see what sokker looks inside - they rapidly lose the interest.

This is what's the problem, that's what should be improved in first place.

I'm not saying that your 'thing' is not a problem - yes, a broken light bulb in the living room is a problem, but it's not the priority because you can live without one light bulb, while it's a lot harder to cope with a broken washing machine.

The problem is that most users log in once, twice or even never. Basically when they log in and see what sokker looks inside - they rapidly lose the interest.

Indeed :) Almost all never login again after registration and 1 visit, even after their team is accepted by an admin they never come back again. And we don't even know how many don't even register because of the outdated look when they see Sokker the first time.