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Subject: New match engine discussion
In moments and statistic yes, but in result 1-5 and 2-2 it's not quite similar)
finishing always will be random because ever shot has 4 factors
1. striker skill [it's not always for example brilliant, it has a range...]
2. gk skill
3. position
4. number of opponents around
my divine striker made 1/3 and 1/4.
my brilliant striker made 3/10 and 1/9.
it could've easily been 2/10 and 2/9 = the same. one goal in the 1:5 game was an own goal of defender.
1. striker skill [it's not always for example brilliant, it has a range...]
2. gk skill
3. position
4. number of opponents around
my divine striker made 1/3 and 1/4.
my brilliant striker made 3/10 and 1/9.
it could've easily been 2/10 and 2/9 = the same. one goal in the 1:5 game was an own goal of defender.
Ofcourse the result is different, not one single match will be exactly the same, although the stronger team will win most of the times, if the stronger team is using a good tactic ofcourse.
You saw the result.Two matches of same teams in same condition, same tactic, same players.
It's a good example of a perfect environment for mathematical analysis. Yes it's beter to have 10 matches of this kind (10 in same time like it was played), but we have what we have.
I understand what are you trying to say: that in real life the result will not be the same and it's good that in the sokker it's not same too etc... But you forgot that sokker it's a programed game that simulates football matches (ME) and everything in it it's mathematic formulas. So ther is a kind of random coefficient used in calculations.
comparing this two games:
Browary Łomża - The Evil`s 1:5
6 Shots 15
Browary Łomża - The Evil`s 2:2
7 Shots 12
in first game The Evil`s realized 1 of 3 moments and Browary Łomża 1 of 6
in second game The Evil`s realized 1 of 6 moment and Browary Łomża 1 of 3.5
so in second the result of The Evil`s was 2 time worth than in firs, and the result of Browary Łomża was 2 time better. it's just a remark.
I think tis difference is to high and if we speak about 1 to 9 random, it should be more like 2-3 and 2-2.
You saw the result.Two matches of same teams in same condition, same tactic, same players.
It's a good example of a perfect environment for mathematical analysis. Yes it's beter to have 10 matches of this kind (10 in same time like it was played), but we have what we have.
I understand what are you trying to say: that in real life the result will not be the same and it's good that in the sokker it's not same too etc... But you forgot that sokker it's a programed game that simulates football matches (ME) and everything in it it's mathematic formulas. So ther is a kind of random coefficient used in calculations.
comparing this two games:
Browary Łomża - The Evil`s 1:5
6 Shots 15
Browary Łomża - The Evil`s 2:2
7 Shots 12
in first game The Evil`s realized 1 of 3 moments and Browary Łomża 1 of 6
in second game The Evil`s realized 1 of 6 moment and Browary Łomża 1 of 3.5
so in second the result of The Evil`s was 2 time worth than in firs, and the result of Browary Łomża was 2 time better. it's just a remark.
I think tis difference is to high and if we speak about 1 to 9 random, it should be more like 2-3 and 2-2.
What you say would have sense if both teams had divine strikers and divine goalkeepers - but it wasn't so...my gk is only brilliant, one of my striker is also brilliant, so the finishing HAS to be random...
with divine the random range is much smaller than with brilliant, please try to understand it :)
with divine the random range is much smaller than with brilliant, please try to understand it :)
ther was a bug in arcade games and one day teams played 2 matches with each other with same tactic, same form etc...
that bug fixed. double match. and play match with own team.
that bug fixed. double match. and play match with own team.
You don't understand what he is writing about.
The bug was about setting two games, not how these two games were played.
The bug was about setting two games, not how these two games were played.
guzh, how do you want this ME run?
please give me until very detail aspect.
i feel you have brillian idea.
please give me until very detail aspect.
i feel you have brillian idea.
I like the new ME, but I would change one thing - the random factor.
Before there was less random - it was more or less clear, that a defender needs 2 skills highed def skill to tackle a striker from behind; or that a striker needs to have 2 levels higher technique to dribble the defender from front etc.
now it has been changed and we see...randomness everywhere...player dribbling 3-4 divine defenders in a row...from front...in my 'idea' it shouldn't happen that often.
also the stupid things, that are reported since ages...like the throw in bug:
when the 'receiver' of throw in is close to the 'thrower' then even superdivine technique players have problem to control the ball and it goes out of the pitch...
...or the receiver decides to pass the ball back to thrower...but even divine pm and divine passing 'receiver' can't actually make an accurate pass to the 'thrower' who is 3-4 meters away from him...
Before there was less random - it was more or less clear, that a defender needs 2 skills highed def skill to tackle a striker from behind; or that a striker needs to have 2 levels higher technique to dribble the defender from front etc.
now it has been changed and we see...randomness everywhere...player dribbling 3-4 divine defenders in a row...from front...in my 'idea' it shouldn't happen that often.
also the stupid things, that are reported since ages...like the throw in bug:
when the 'receiver' of throw in is close to the 'thrower' then even superdivine technique players have problem to control the ball and it goes out of the pitch...
...or the receiver decides to pass the ball back to thrower...but even divine pm and divine passing 'receiver' can't actually make an accurate pass to the 'thrower' who is 3-4 meters away from him...
Bonifác Hingoš, age: 31
formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
divine [17] pace formidable [11] defender
outstanding [12] technique divine [17] playmaker
magical [15] passing adequate [6] striker
---------------------------------------------------------------
lets talk about tactics,look that player,i decide to put him twice in attack potition
the matches are:
Gerakia.A.O. - Kopidi 7:1(Date: 2013-06-30 ) 2 gol at 6
in this match i play with 2 mids in att potition,score also the other mid,who is average in skill(att)
Zorba the Creep - Gerakia.A.O. (Date: 2013-07-07 ) 4 gol at 6
well?this sokker we want to play?
formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
divine [17] pace formidable [11] defender
outstanding [12] technique divine [17] playmaker
magical [15] passing adequate [6] striker
---------------------------------------------------------------
lets talk about tactics,look that player,i decide to put him twice in attack potition
the matches are:
Gerakia.A.O. - Kopidi 7:1(Date: 2013-06-30 ) 2 gol at 6
in this match i play with 2 mids in att potition,score also the other mid,who is average in skill(att)
Zorba the Creep - Gerakia.A.O. (Date: 2013-07-07 ) 4 gol at 6
well?this sokker we want to play?
The game where he scored 4 goals:
opponent has a shitty goalkeeper who was without form, also judging by opponent's tactic, most [if not all] of situations were due to 1 on 1 with goalkeeper/2 on 1 and with defenders faaar behind the strikers...
the 2/6 - also shitty gk, plus the second goal was on empty goal, according to the report
if you want we can play a arcade game, Hingos will be your only striker and we will see how many goals he will score against my brilliant gk :P
opponent has a shitty goalkeeper who was without form, also judging by opponent's tactic, most [if not all] of situations were due to 1 on 1 with goalkeeper/2 on 1 and with defenders faaar behind the strikers...
the 2/6 - also shitty gk, plus the second goal was on empty goal, according to the report
if you want we can play a arcade game, Hingos will be your only striker and we will see how many goals he will score against my brilliant gk :P
i think both keepers have skill 12 or +1 more
but the mid have skill 6 !!and low form too
i cant play arcade,if u want we can play friendly at the end of the seazon
i dont need arcade with this me
(edited)
but the mid have skill 6 !!and low form too
i cant play arcade,if u want we can play friendly at the end of the seazon
i dont need arcade with this me
(edited)
with divine the random range is much smaller than with brilliant, please try to understand it :)
For sure divine is better and suber divene is even more)))
For sure divine is better and suber divene is even more)))
Two or more game at same time it's not important for me.. I havetn speak a bout this bug, but about that this 2 matches has different results.
Borkos has indicate everithing! Or almost)
I like the new ME, but I would change one thing - the random factor.
Before there was less random - it was more or less clear, that a defender needs 2 skills highed def skill to tackle a striker from behind; or that a striker needs to have 2 levels higher technique to dribble the defender from front etc.
now it has been changed and we see...randomness everywhere...player dribbling 3-4 divine defenders in a row...from front...in my 'idea' it shouldn't happen that often.
also the stupid things, that are reported since ages...like the throw in bug:
when the 'receiver' of throw in is close to the 'thrower' then even superdivine technique players have problem to control the ball and it goes out of the pitch...
...or the receiver decides to pass the ball back to thrower...but even divine pm and divine passing 'receiver' can't actually make an accurate pass to the 'thrower' who is 3-4 meters away from him...
I'll add that trower always try to trow forward even ona cowered player and not on open. We adapt to this but it limits the tactic building
If you want more detail: if random coeficient now is from 1 to 10, i think it's need to be decreased atleast to 7. So it must have less effect on a game.
(edited)
Borkos has indicate everithing! Or almost)
I like the new ME, but I would change one thing - the random factor.
Before there was less random - it was more or less clear, that a defender needs 2 skills highed def skill to tackle a striker from behind; or that a striker needs to have 2 levels higher technique to dribble the defender from front etc.
now it has been changed and we see...randomness everywhere...player dribbling 3-4 divine defenders in a row...from front...in my 'idea' it shouldn't happen that often.
also the stupid things, that are reported since ages...like the throw in bug:
when the 'receiver' of throw in is close to the 'thrower' then even superdivine technique players have problem to control the ball and it goes out of the pitch...
...or the receiver decides to pass the ball back to thrower...but even divine pm and divine passing 'receiver' can't actually make an accurate pass to the 'thrower' who is 3-4 meters away from him...
I'll add that trower always try to trow forward even ona cowered player and not on open. We adapt to this but it limits the tactic building
If you want more detail: if random coeficient now is from 1 to 10, i think it's need to be decreased atleast to 7. So it must have less effect on a game.
(edited)
this engine is a disgrace...under 1M value defenders run and act like they are 2xsuperdivine...my superdivine pace defender with 17 def can`t get the ball from a 0,75M value wing :)
wtf is going on these days? and it`s not a singular case....i had matches like this the whole season...
look at NZ-Jamaica from today....absolutely joke
i was suppose to have 12 points with this country this season, but now i have only 4...i will stay 1 more season here to put the things together and then get the fuck out
i can`t play something like this
(edited)
wtf is going on these days? and it`s not a singular case....i had matches like this the whole season...
look at NZ-Jamaica from today....absolutely joke
i was suppose to have 12 points with this country this season, but now i have only 4...i will stay 1 more season here to put the things together and then get the fuck out
i can`t play something like this
(edited)
First, I wish to respond to the post of guzh77 on 26/7 23:08:
I did a simulation on the results of a football match, where team A has 15 shots with 24% of scoring and team B has 6 shots with 18% of scoring. This is the first ten results: (1:0, 3:1, 3:2, 5:2, 2:1, 1:3, 1:1, 6:1, 1:2, 1:0)
Over 1000 match, team A won 847 times and team B won 53 times and there're 101 draws. The best results of team A is 10:0 while the worst is 0:4.
The ratio beween percentage of scoring correspond to the real life case between a top team and a bottom team and their value is tweaked a little higher to make the results more 'sokker-like'
Anyway, the point I wish to make is even with a clear advantage to one team, it's normal to have fluctuation in results when looking at a small sample of matches.
(I am a research postgraduate student in statistical physics so it's unlikely that my program is buggy, though you may dislike the percentage. Also in real life we don't see that much fluctuation as players' behavior are different with different scoreline and real context of the match, probably.)
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Second I want to point out that mathematics DOES NOT mean deterministic. Even with the same initial conditions (same players, form, tactics, etc.) it's a possible that the game go through completely different states (so that we see completely different matches), though in the end maybe there're some quantities tend to be similar (converge to a limit). For those interested, you may want to learn a bit on stochastic process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_process
We can change parameters and prob. distribution function of random variables to make certain features of the match more 'predictable', but this is an issue of personal taste (how we want a sokker match looks like) rather than mathematics.
My personal view: Sokker has too many constraint like shortened match time and players' behavior independent of the context of the match, that make simulation of all features of real football very hard if not impossible. In general I think this ME is okay, but some features (or bugs) like movement of keepers, ball launching, penalty/empty goal conversion can certainly be improved.
I hope you don't find this post boring.
I did a simulation on the results of a football match, where team A has 15 shots with 24% of scoring and team B has 6 shots with 18% of scoring. This is the first ten results: (1:0, 3:1, 3:2, 5:2, 2:1, 1:3, 1:1, 6:1, 1:2, 1:0)
Over 1000 match, team A won 847 times and team B won 53 times and there're 101 draws. The best results of team A is 10:0 while the worst is 0:4.
The ratio beween percentage of scoring correspond to the real life case between a top team and a bottom team and their value is tweaked a little higher to make the results more 'sokker-like'
Anyway, the point I wish to make is even with a clear advantage to one team, it's normal to have fluctuation in results when looking at a small sample of matches.
(I am a research postgraduate student in statistical physics so it's unlikely that my program is buggy, though you may dislike the percentage. Also in real life we don't see that much fluctuation as players' behavior are different with different scoreline and real context of the match, probably.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second I want to point out that mathematics DOES NOT mean deterministic. Even with the same initial conditions (same players, form, tactics, etc.) it's a possible that the game go through completely different states (so that we see completely different matches), though in the end maybe there're some quantities tend to be similar (converge to a limit). For those interested, you may want to learn a bit on stochastic process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_process
We can change parameters and prob. distribution function of random variables to make certain features of the match more 'predictable', but this is an issue of personal taste (how we want a sokker match looks like) rather than mathematics.
My personal view: Sokker has too many constraint like shortened match time and players' behavior independent of the context of the match, that make simulation of all features of real football very hard if not impossible. In general I think this ME is okay, but some features (or bugs) like movement of keepers, ball launching, penalty/empty goal conversion can certainly be improved.
I hope you don't find this post boring.