Subject: New match engine discussion

You don't get it. You think there is no problem. People who posts like me think there is. Who is right?

The fact is almost all match results are completely normal and the results are as expected (strongest en best teams win), nothing strange going on. Just a few matches each week end not as expected and then the drama on the forum starts, drama over a lost match and drama over just a few % of all match results. But the managers posting this drama makes it look like there is a big problem, while that's just simply not true. The facts are completely different; Nothing is wrong with match results!

Besides, football is all about winning and loosing matches. And yes, sometimes unexpected and even 'unfair' results happen. But hee, that's football. Everyone has to deal with these unexpected results now and then.

So who is right?

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How would you solve the "problem"? You basically propose that the team with more chances should always win. Because if not, results like yours are just a matter of probability.
These matches have always been and will always be there.

there is a very simple answer.
Reduce the amount of randomness.
Not to eliminate it.

Random results are acceptable in a very little quantity, when they begin to represent a good part of matches, there is something wrong. The random itself, as a mechanism to produce the match, is not replaceable. So the question is HOW MUCH?

The fact that reality has more random than sokker has.. well it has really nothing to do with this question.
The realism we need in sokker is the part we need to enjoy the game (unless you want doping, refree's errors, scandals in this game, cheating.. why not? that's real..)
In fact any comparation between sokker and reality always leads to stupid results. IMHO.
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There is already very little randomness in this game (as in surprise results), the strongest and best teams almost always win. There is no need for changes. Managers who keep telling there are too many surprise results and randomness should start counting after all competition matches are played and find out what the facts really are.


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I disagree.
(and I don't see any number in your post).
A good analysis is really hard to do on big numbers.
Because of the tactic, the skills combination, the hidden datas we don't see etc. etc.
If one see only stats and scoring attempts.. and try to figure out something by it..
that's a sure fail!

So I talk by a sensation, made up by observing matches. I admit it.
And by a sensation talks everyone else.. nobody can say "numbers" give him any argument about it..

But the "sensations" of users IS THE KEY THING TO WATCH AT..
when your job is making a game..

The danish champion for 14 seasons in a row, has been the same team, even though he has had serious competition many of the seasons...... i think there in some cases, might even be too little random...

i think there in some cases, might even be too little random...

Agree.

Theres too little random. But crying in forum and so on starts most from people that dont wanna learn to make there squad or tactics better and adjust it to the presumed of opponent and sometimes there are used to thinnk this way from other easier games. Than there is a feeling of *to much random* and the people who make their things rather fine loose and they get in same mood and think: majority of people crying in forums are right. Getting tend to say the same. So, then the some people make their things here really right ... and so on ... circle downway ... (and no, im not one of last group, I think im in middle one).

Just a question to the random-fighters: Why we like real football as it is!? Because of the surprises. The fight that can win a team from little village of 5thleague against Bayern München or BVB in first rounds of cup. Anyone saw this here (besides the thing that there are no longer 5th league in germany)!?

Why I (just me) dont like american sports? Because of this thing 4of7-system. Any random is eliminated and at the end every time the better team wins. Or at least more often than in real football (not american football).

Random is necessary. Absolut.

More random please! :)
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what are you talking about? this is not random, this is arcade bullshit. If you want to see some football random play Football Manager series. Plenty normal everyday happening random. But here random is not random, it's complete bullcrap. Strikers missing empty goal is random? had 2 such situations last league game. This is just crappy full of bugs and mistakes ARCADE. I want simulation not arcade.

Strikers missing empty goal is random? had 2 such situations last league game.

Have this situations also many times and accept it.

This is just crappy full of bugs and mistakes ARCADE.

Than the way of building random in the enginemachinge isnt ok. But the random is necessary.

I want simulation not arcade.

Simulation of what? Real football!? Its a game at its own.

If a simulation of real football wanted: Than we need more random. Maybe better created from engine, but many times for example I have seen in real football missing fantastic strikers the empty goal more than two times a match.
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Well the problem (if any) as i see it is, that the difference in shot chances is so absurd if the rating is just 7-10 better, so that losses against worse teams will seem impossible out from statistics, but the losses is needed.... i think the situation could be solved with better or worse possible performances then what the rating says, so that the matches won by smaller teams wont be because of extreme luck, but because of a good match from the underdog.... so better passes, better tackles, better decisions, longer runs before tired and such but with more random too it, but shot accuracy only better and with less random, would give random the possibilty to work for the underdog in many cases, so that they won by a team that fought for it, because the number of shots will be more random, but more often the most shooting team will win.....

The way I see it form is random during a game (players having a good or a bad day). But here form is the same for 3-4 days and players perform consistently depending on form. The biggest random in football is goalkeeper's magical day, penalty, red card and sometimes underdog lucky break which ends with a goal. I think engine is poorly balanced for being more realistic. But who cares anymore, right? I thought this game will be better and better every year but engine is the same for few years now.

I think engine is poorly balanced for being more realistic.

A point I can agree with you. If I only think and the pacedifference beetween a 18 and 0-one player. Surreal.

But I dont think its the way of this game sokker: its a game of its own, a virtual variation of real football, but let the dream and fantasy of real football, that we love also.

And to make a difference beetween *bugs* and *created differences*, between random and differences from one game (sokker) to another (real football, making its not as a simulation) is important.

assuming that who claim for LESS random is only crying is possible only if you fail in reading posts.
Assuming that someone ask for eliminating random is only possible if you didn't read at all..

I can't understand what you ask more random for.. (apart the stupid link between sokker and football, it should be teached in the rules "never compare sokker to football"!)

i think the situation could be solved with better or worse possible performances then what the rating says, so that the matches won by smaller teams wont be because of extreme luck, but because of a good match from the underdog.... so better passes, better tackles, better decisions,

More interesting than random or not, realistic simulation or not, just imho.

Question is maybe: why should win weaker team against better opponents? And how get in operational steps, if wanted to manage in other way?
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Game is as good as dead anyway. So calm down and watch Dortmund this season :))