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Subject: »Do you like the new ME?
Then maybe the problem is at my players:) or as you have say already, thousand of games are played, so you can't really make a good idea from only 1 game, but the post from above was only my observation.
I'm also not sure yet about it all ofcourse, need more matches and experience to find out these new things with the ME. I'm going to try some new things in my next friendly matches to hopefully find out a couple of these things :)
A tactic like this for example should give some new info about how wing-ATTs play and pass:
ATT = 9, 10 and 11
(don't mind the other players, is only to show the ATTs :))
(edited)
A tactic like this for example should give some new info about how wing-ATTs play and pass:
ATT = 9, 10 and 11
(don't mind the other players, is only to show the ATTs :))
(edited)
I'm really sorry to say this, because I had great expectations for the ME changes, and I've always support the development of this game and how devs tried to improve it, even if they took their time to do so. Even now I still support their resolution to make the best online football manager possible. Maybe because I trust their ability to make a better game I feel inclined to say this.
The new ME makes no sense. Despite some nice features that promised a lot in the first matches after the announcement, what we have now is a serious step back with respect the previous ME. The old ME was plagued by some irrealistic and/or disfunctional characteristics, but it has an internal logic of its own. Sure, it was right to end the superman headers, and defenders 'AI' opens the door to some new tactical developments. But the overall behaviour of the engine has been reduced to lottery where nothing makes a difference. Skills in general seem to be much less relevant and, what is worse, all players seem low-level rather than high-level. Or I should say: they all are "unpredictable-level". The opportunities to choose from a wide arrange of tactics (no, for the nth time: there was no need to play 5-2-3 in the old engine), even manipulate your tactic to obtain more long ball or more short passing (our ability to have a "constructive middlefield" was higher than ever), it all has disappeard now, and all matches have the same pinball-rugby flavour.
What convinced me of this, after several tests and a lot of discussion in the forum, is the proof that I got today. This match was the ultimate proof that we need a serious rework on the ME.
As you can see, this is no whining: I won this match. The problem is: I predicted this victory.
The problem is not the result (actually, it also is the result), but what is inside the match. Devs can quickly see what I mean by checking my lineup. The rest of you can't see my players' skills, so you need an explanation.
Las week, after watching a terrible match against the same team (it ended 1-1: I scored the equalizer at the very end, playing in 9 men), in which everything was about long balls and charging strikers, where strikers tackling defenders was much more important than defenders tackling strikers, I made a public promise. I said to my league mates: next match I will play the 4 guys with highest technique in defense, no matter what the other skills are. I will play the 3 guys with highest defending as forwards, no matter what tthe other skills. And I will place 3 of the remaining players in between, but closer to my defense, to launch long balls, and I don't really care who they are because it's not going to make a difference. And I'll win, even if my opponent is reading this, because this is how the new ME works.
You can take my word for it: I did exactly that (2 players were suspended, they were replaced by poorer players in terms of skills you're supposed to have in each position). One of my best mids still played as mid, then an acceptable young guy (6th best mid in my team) also played there, and the remaining mid was my worst mid trainee, because he had divine form :P
Dear devs: I should have lost at least 5-0. This is not a lucky match, an isolated, possible case. I did wrong almost everything that can be done wrong, except excluding my best players altogether. I basically took my 11 starters and shuffled them around the pitch, against the same opponent that proved to be a decent match last week when playing "normal". Things like this cannot happen in any ME with any hope of being fun.
The new ME makes no sense. Despite some nice features that promised a lot in the first matches after the announcement, what we have now is a serious step back with respect the previous ME. The old ME was plagued by some irrealistic and/or disfunctional characteristics, but it has an internal logic of its own. Sure, it was right to end the superman headers, and defenders 'AI' opens the door to some new tactical developments. But the overall behaviour of the engine has been reduced to lottery where nothing makes a difference. Skills in general seem to be much less relevant and, what is worse, all players seem low-level rather than high-level. Or I should say: they all are "unpredictable-level". The opportunities to choose from a wide arrange of tactics (no, for the nth time: there was no need to play 5-2-3 in the old engine), even manipulate your tactic to obtain more long ball or more short passing (our ability to have a "constructive middlefield" was higher than ever), it all has disappeard now, and all matches have the same pinball-rugby flavour.
What convinced me of this, after several tests and a lot of discussion in the forum, is the proof that I got today. This match was the ultimate proof that we need a serious rework on the ME.
As you can see, this is no whining: I won this match. The problem is: I predicted this victory.
The problem is not the result (actually, it also is the result), but what is inside the match. Devs can quickly see what I mean by checking my lineup. The rest of you can't see my players' skills, so you need an explanation.
Las week, after watching a terrible match against the same team (it ended 1-1: I scored the equalizer at the very end, playing in 9 men), in which everything was about long balls and charging strikers, where strikers tackling defenders was much more important than defenders tackling strikers, I made a public promise. I said to my league mates: next match I will play the 4 guys with highest technique in defense, no matter what the other skills are. I will play the 3 guys with highest defending as forwards, no matter what tthe other skills. And I will place 3 of the remaining players in between, but closer to my defense, to launch long balls, and I don't really care who they are because it's not going to make a difference. And I'll win, even if my opponent is reading this, because this is how the new ME works.
You can take my word for it: I did exactly that (2 players were suspended, they were replaced by poorer players in terms of skills you're supposed to have in each position). One of my best mids still played as mid, then an acceptable young guy (6th best mid in my team) also played there, and the remaining mid was my worst mid trainee, because he had divine form :P
Dear devs: I should have lost at least 5-0. This is not a lucky match, an isolated, possible case. I did wrong almost everything that can be done wrong, except excluding my best players altogether. I basically took my 11 starters and shuffled them around the pitch, against the same opponent that proved to be a decent match last week when playing "normal". Things like this cannot happen in any ME with any hope of being fun.
The fact is that, in real soccer there are a lot of reasons for a result. Random has it's share but there is a lot of other reasons that people don't know and blame random. There is a lot less random in real soccer than people think. Or is it a coincidence Brazil winning World Cup 58, 62 and 70? Spain winning last WC and 2 European Cups?
So the fact is that there is much less random in real soccer than people think. Those who played soccer for a long time knows it very well. Unfortunately, all of these reasons cannot be simulated in a game like this without making it too complicated. But if you increase random to be responsable to all of these reasons that people don't know calling it "realistic" is a poor vision of soccer and the game is much less interesting.
To conclude, sorry this is too long, the match is about good players and random (tactics is very, very small part of the game). The game itself become more of tranining and market to get good players, the match itself is very disapointing right now.
I'm entirely agreeing with you, your conclusion is very valid.....I can see very clearly you know real football.
"the match is about good players and random"...this is the only thing to be amended with the very ineteresting Enzo's test results.
So the fact is that there is much less random in real soccer than people think. Those who played soccer for a long time knows it very well. Unfortunately, all of these reasons cannot be simulated in a game like this without making it too complicated. But if you increase random to be responsable to all of these reasons that people don't know calling it "realistic" is a poor vision of soccer and the game is much less interesting.
To conclude, sorry this is too long, the match is about good players and random (tactics is very, very small part of the game). The game itself become more of tranining and market to get good players, the match itself is very disapointing right now.
I'm entirely agreeing with you, your conclusion is very valid.....I can see very clearly you know real football.
"the match is about good players and random"...this is the only thing to be amended with the very ineteresting Enzo's test results.
interesting post:O
could you paste pls skills from your shuffled team? i see defs at striker, and strikers at def. how your strikers defended the enemy? Did he shuffled his players too?
could you paste pls skills from your shuffled team? i see defs at striker, and strikers at def. how your strikers defended the enemy? Did he shuffled his players too?
Did he shuffled his players too?
no. Don Enzo's opponent used the same players and tactic as the week before/the previous match.
no. Don Enzo's opponent used the same players and tactic as the week before/the previous match.
Mmm strange, that doesn't look good. I have copied your post and put on the Forum Sokker Linguists to show it to the DEVs and hopefully they do something about it.
That's only a fact that prove that many users here who come and whine as you said, only wanted to express what they also saw with the hasardous way of this new ME...
Moreover, as it is a good thing to stop the overpowerful of wing tactic by the past, now a wing is clearly useless and as we could see many 541wing or even 532wing by the past, now we almost only see 442withoutwing tactics useful...
Moreover, as it is a good thing to stop the overpowerful of wing tactic by the past, now a wing is clearly useless and as we could see many 541wing or even 532wing by the past, now we almost only see 442withoutwing tactics useful...
hm, ok, but if you have tried this with the old ME, you may have seen there isnt such a great difference.
the special skills for one player have never been so important in this game. it has always been a distribution of skills from the whole team. so it was always important, that your def players also have striker skills and your strikers def skills.
the great change is, that the visuals can not camouflage as good as before, that there are no real live situations in this game. the whole thing is prediction itself and the players just react. ME creates a match, not the players themselfes. this is a big difference and the reason for why special skills in special situations are not as important as the managers want them to be.
the special skills for one player have never been so important in this game. it has always been a distribution of skills from the whole team. so it was always important, that your def players also have striker skills and your strikers def skills.
the great change is, that the visuals can not camouflage as good as before, that there are no real live situations in this game. the whole thing is prediction itself and the players just react. ME creates a match, not the players themselfes. this is a big difference and the reason for why special skills in special situations are not as important as the managers want them to be.
That's only a fact that prove that many users here who come and whine as you said, only wanted to express what they also saw with the hasardous way of this new ME...
The difference is that Don Enzo actually tried something and his text support his findings, that's something else as complaining based on assumptions, feelings and lost matches ;)
If these findings are correct I don't know, that's up to the DEVs as they can most probably look at the data and all skills of all players in that match, also the opponent. But if the findings are correct, it's strange and should really be looked at if this is what the ME should do.
The difference is that Don Enzo actually tried something and his text support his findings, that's something else as complaining based on assumptions, feelings and lost matches ;)
If these findings are correct I don't know, that's up to the DEVs as they can most probably look at the data and all skills of all players in that match, also the opponent. But if the findings are correct, it's strange and should really be looked at if this is what the ME should do.