Subject: NEWS Upcoming Changes

If they only change back to the old youth system, it would be perfect again for me.

I agree. Current sytem does not make any sense to me. I wonder why they even changed it.

+3. The day Sokker died imo.

+4 I can't see anything realistic in it, just confusing ups and downs and lousy quality of the kids.

just confusing ups and downs

Knowing the skills are an estimation, then the ups and downs make sense and then it's also not confusing, only way less predictable :)

In the end it is the same as the old junior system (very old btw): number of weeks divided by the number of pops = talent.


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I can't see anything realistic in it,

But then you dont know football.... only skill out of the 8 skills in sokker, anyone could make a number out of in RL is pace.... all the other skills would always be estimations.... also the juniors are shown with a total level, this would in real life also always be a estimation..... the old system, where you could see their exact total level, would never be possible rl.... also to see how their talent is exactly, is something that is far from reality.... you can feel what ever you want about "new" system, but reality is far closer in new, to say else is plain wrong...

It is not only about what is real or not, sometimes some functions closer to the reality are not the best option to get people hooked on a game. A lot of people don't stay at Sokker just because it is hard enough (or nerdy) for them with the tactic engine (my favourite though) and more. So the old youth system worked better for the game, and for the new users, it was good enough and functional and didn't cause issues. The new system may be more closer to IRL, but it is absolutely a big mistake in a game that is already more advanced than other manager games. The proof? It was clear, less people stayed longer after registration, and a lot of existing managers left, a lot in that time and after (we are still suffering).

Charles, even though you are a staff member, you don't need to defend every aspect of the game (cause it is not perfect), defending the new youth system in compare to the old one is just bullshit and you know it. Otherwise i like how loyal you staff people are.

I think more managers would like to have the old system back, but i also know that nothing will be changed, its not like the developers for this game hold good communication with the customers, it was so back then, and nothing has changed today. The biggest mistakes as an entrepreneur is to not listen to your customers, the community had a very small effect on positive changes in this game, otherwise Sokker would've been another game today cause it had crazy potential back then.

Now we are in that phase where we starting to loose the core users (the worst phase), who loved this game to the bone... and with the release of the new mobile game Inter football manager. The developers will not have time for Sokker.org, if anyone here have ever run their own company, then they know how it is to run two projects at once.


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It is not only about what is real or not, sometimes some functions closer to the reality are not the best option to get people hooked on a game

That is true. But the claim that new system is less realistic or not realistic at all was wrong, so adaca's answer in that sense was correct. That's independent of which system is best in game terms (personally, I never liked the training system overall).


Regarding the survival of Sokker: I don't know what does everyone think greg's daily work to keep sokker running is, but I insist that it isn't the amount of time he spends, but the amount of time we spend what is going to determine its future. We can discuss how much the game will improve, sure, but staying online "as is" is hardly going to be a problem, new game or not, as long as there are enough managers left.
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And i never mentioned that Adaca was wrong =)
In the first place, i never wrote about taking back the old youth system based on if its real or not, i wrote it because i think that it was the best for this game. And later i tried to explain that, my thoughts.

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well... I have been a trainer in both football and floorball for 15 seasons, in both youth and senior levels.
During that time I have NEVER seen anyone with these irregular ups and downs as in sokker, and especially not a 3 step down after a 3 step up the week before, so.. the old system WERE more lika reality, trust me.

EDIT: BUT the static pops in the old wasn't realistic, there should have been a random factor built in.
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Never?? I have seen worse in rl. Players who are the best you can hope for, a couple of weeks later they can't even send passes normally anymore or dribble a pawn without loosing the ball (as a matter of speaking)

trust me man, that's for sure a dip in the form and not because of their suddenly loss of talent (and the trainers expectations for him dipped 3 steps ;))
That is totally normal over a season, but as a coach you know your players abilities and you know that their form will rise again.

If the graph showed their form - I could buy it - but when it's supposed to show their expected talent - no way.

Ofcourse it's not loss of talent, but it shows that players can be judged differently every week, even in rl. Some players are judged as the best talented players when they are still young, but all of the sudden their progress is over, while less talented players during their youth become better and better for many more years.

But anyway, Sokker is a game and not rl. So we can discuss this over and over, but it won't change and it won't become rl either ;)
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totally agree with lilltrollet here

Charles, even though you are a staff member, you don't need to defend every aspect of the game (cause it is not perfect), defending the new youth system in compare to the old one is just bullshit and you know it.

I think defending the boring old system as if it was better is just bs. So yes, I think the current system is better and that has absolutely nothing to do with me being a staff member. It is my opinion and has nothing to do with defending it. If I don't like something or something else better, I will also say that.

And if you want to make it a staff member thing, which makes no sense, I am one of the most critical staff members on staff forum.

I usually stay out of these back and forth banters.. but i wanted to add something here..

the old system imo gave the owners of the youth squad an advantage in that they had a better idea of the exact talent of their youths.. giving the youth program more appeal.. the talent from the youth squad sucks.. i haven't got a player worth keeping or selling in 18 months.. so the few decent players you get every couple years you should have every advantage possible to make it worth the while.. and more fun.. along with a real advantage to keeping your own youth players on your senior squad to train..

so making it trickier to determine talent with upcoming youths makes the program not worth it.. the whole thing kind of sucks at this point.. no real talent.. and no advantage of keeping you own youth's over picking up random ones in the transfer market..

& at the end of the day.. how can you argue that anything closer to real life is better for the game? at the end of the day its all about gaming pleasure.. fun for the users.. period!

thats all folks..
peace!

at the end of the day its all about gaming pleasure.. fun for the users.. period!


Yes indeed, and liking the youth system or not is just a matter of taste. But whatever managers think of it, it is how it is.

And the downside of not having a junior school, specially in small(er) Sokker countries, not enough new juniors will affect the U21 and NT. Besides, junior school isn't that expensive for managers earning enough money in higher divisions :)