Subject: game is dead ? what would you change

No problem... if greg promise to give me some plus (staff's plus if he don't want give some pool for promoting) to use for organize any competitions, contests, games, anything... only to do sometings interesting for people. Yeah, i think that will be works.

I don't know if I got you right, but are you saying we (promoters) should do our job for free, with no Plus, and the first thing you request is having Plus?

If you mean giving Plus to other users, neither Admins no Mods can do that. As I said earlier, the only way to give Plus to another user would be buying it with money from our pockets.

As a promoter I can assure you that I can't give you any Plus I earn, I would have given away some months if I could, believe me, but I can only get Plus for myself and the only ones who can change this are the developers.

Even though I didn't know or use any of your contributions, I sincerely appreciate what you are doing, and so do the others. Your work, along with the work of other users (oSokker, Sokker Viewer, Sokker Organizer...) and the staff helps this game to become better.

. I think, you (promotors, admins, mods) should push on greg to change politics. We should change somethings, and one of those things is "promotion policy" and greg's respect for users,

Which part of this promotion policy do you want to change? it's a job harder than you may think of. You have to find websites that are regularly visited from your country (that's what the Page Rank is) and registering there and spamming as much as possible.

If I want to attract more users I can spam another games like Hattrick, and I do it, but Hattrick website is hattrick.org instead of hattrick.es so we don't get any Plus from it, even though it's the most effective way of promoting it. Some other newspaper and website news, even though they are spanish, they end in .com, such as marca.com and as.com which are the main spanish sport papers. Since they end in .com, we don't get Plus either so we do it for free.

And trying to convince greg to change some things, well, we tried to do it. We have a forum called Sokker Linguist which is the main way to communicate with greg. I can't post any stuff posted there, but I can show you just one of the ideas I tried to post, and there are many others given by staff members, I would say there are more ideas (and better) posted there and in the Sokker Bugs / Ideas.

From here I will forward you my post (long read):


But with the current stalled development and highly deficient client support, this is only a way to upset people.

The thing that annoys me the most is that it's not the fact that developers lack skills, just look at how far the game has gone, devs are fine. The root of the problem lies in organization:

- From the developers side, there's a little number of devs running the game. The game is too big for such a few guys, even though they were the most skilled programmers ever seen, they would struggle with it.

- The development agenda lacks a good organization. I don't think the game is completely abandoned and every developer does what it wants when he feels like, but I believe the priorities are set wrong. They implemented this waiting time and advertising, and I guess it took less time than fixing the NT buttons, which were probably a simple CSS error. A big bug was reported that admins can't access the sokker official email address, so every query sent there is just lost since no one reads it.

- The final user feels abandoned, even though things are being implemented, there's a feeling that the game is running on a straight line until it crashes against a wall somewhere.


The solution is rather simple, but it involves changing the core philosophy of how things are done:

- Increment the number of developers: I don't know if they are paid anything or they just volunteer. They could receive a little share of the income money after the maintenance money has been paid.

- Have developers prioritize their work based on "categories": This is simple, this game is made from several parts: user interface (the web, CSS styles, images...), web coding (properly parsing XML files, rendering plus graphics...), the game engine, the updates server, the visor... The idea is that a developer is assigned one of these categories, and even though we could solve more bugs in other categories, his highest priority is the bugs that belong to his main range of work.

- Implement a bug tracker: If you don't know what they are, this is a bug tracker (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5). Users can post a bug using a title, then they write a description of it and assign a category for it (i.e. web interface/engine/visor/suggestion...). Other users post if they can replicate the bug in their computers. Finally a tester (or a staff member) oficially confirms it, status is changed to CONFIRMED and the bug is assigned to a developer (or group of devs). Developers usually keep in touch with users and when the bug is fixed, the status is changed to FIX. Maybe you can't release the fix right away, so a status like "FIXED FOR NEXT RELEASE" will say that as soon as a new version of the site/engine is out, this will be solved. If a bug has been posted before, it is marked REPLICATED FROM and linked to the first report.

Of course, bugzilla (the bug tracker) is quite a big platform for a game like this. But it shouldn't take more than a month to develop a small one for Sokker. It could use the forum interface, with new options for Category (engine, visor...), Status and Priority.

This will help organize all the reports, since we won't have ambiguous post such as "Common Sense" (which most of them are opinions) or "Bugs with the new design", when many things are reported at once and requires extensive monitoring and organization.

Having things organized by categories and properly assigned will make the devs less stressed and the job much easier.

- Teach users how to properly report bugs: This could be done right now, although with the current bug tracking system (a simple forum) it will still be a mess. But when a bug is reported, specially a design or web bug, an image should be attached (specially when there's poor english involved, like "white thing behind player name. pls fix") and the web browser version and system specs reported. This could be done with a sticky.

Example 1: On my Acer Aspire One D250 netbook, the 3D visor performs very poorly. I could have reported that as a bug and drove everyone crazy. The truth behind the lack of performance comes from the low end specs of the computer, which isn't capable to keep up with the needs of the browser. Also, since it uses a Linux distro and most of them now use the open source drivers, Flash 3D rendering (since it's propietary) performs quite badly. So it's not a Sokker fault, although performance could be improved by using HTML5 (not sure if that's possible as of now).

Example 2: The page is not rendered correctly. It happened to me a while ago. Solution? Updated the browser. If I posted just an image without my browser specs, devs could think I was using the latest software and wasted their time looking further into the problem.


- Implement "feature freeze" state: We all love new stuff: a shiny new car, a new up to date electronic gadget, a new pair of boobs to smash while yucky on a Friday night... but let's be honest, sometimes we have to stop, value what we already have and fix it. A practical example is KDE. KDE is a Linux desktop environment. Everyone loved KDE 3.5, it was great and it just worked. KDE then launched KDE 4 and they unleashed hell: they had changed all the interface, it was an innovation, highly relying in widgets and modularity (which would pay up later), but it was unstable, it crashed quite often, it had a crappy performance and its network manager even refused to connect to Internet! Everyone hated it and people emigrated to other desktop environments. They decided to go into a feature-freeze period. No new things were implemented and bugs were fixed. By the time KDE 4.2 was released, it worked fast and stable. As of today, KDE is on its 4.10 version, it's the fastest growing desktop environment, the most portable one (you could even install it on your phone) and, by far, the most beautiful (regarding eye-candy). All they needed was a little break from features, and focusing on what they already had.


How can this apply to Sokker? I bet they are developing (or at least planning) an Android and iOS client. Why would you do that, when most people access the game from a website which is broken everywhere? Stop the engine changes and features, stop the development of other platforms and focus on fixingwhat you already have.

- More colllaboration among staff members: It was reported that Admins have little to no touch with the devs, so they could only pray for the best. Admins, Mods, Promoters and Linguist usually behave quite well and keep the user fan base. We love mods and admins in Spain for example. But then there's an infinite long gap between Admins and Devs, so people ask questions and Admins never have any idea about what's going on. I'm a promoter and I don't claim to have the right to know what's being developed and what isn't. But Admins should be aware, even just a little, so at least simple answers can be given.

And all this ideas are just management ideas. Most of them don't need much coding, yet they would make this game more efficiently developed and well liked by its user. It may take some effort to plan and implement them, but greg could start doing this from today. It's his game and he can do whatever he wants with it (and users will always hate new features no matter what you do, unless you are an advertising genious like Steve Jobs), but when it comes to development planning and social stuff, there are things that work and are efficient and others that will sink your project.
(edited)

I replay Adrian only becose his post was the last!
This begine from my post, so I'll explane:
one admine tell me that if I like this game I should stop talking and support it by buyng plus. But as such a potrion he get his plus for free, he didn't pay for it. At same time admin, mods, stuff decision are nothing face to Greg! The only one to decide. That mean that admins are hear for nothing! So his job is usless! And he get his plus for what? But it's between me and him.

As far as I see all the words of stuff members are "bull sheat"! (sorre for may english). You tell s that You don't support Greg's decision, it's only his folt, You are for nothing! But at same time You critique us for protest it! You can't stay both sides! Or you with Us or with Greg!
So stop elding that you can't do nothing! If You'r not agree with Greg than quit all together from stuff! (just like one admin propouse me). If You'r with Greg then don't tell us that You do important job by treat us like stupid sheeps! Your only support of uers is critique of thous who are not agree with Greg's politic.
Make Your chois!

Well I believe you are confusing some terms.

First the word "staff". The staff is a group of people that work for a common bussiness. Imagine you own a hospital: medics and nurses are part of the stuff, but also those who clean the floor are part of the hospital's staff.

Now imagine the floor cleaners told the director of the hospital how to operate on people, or to demolish the whole building and building it from zero. The floor cleaner will be probably ignored.

So the floor cleaner has no say in how the hospital is built, managed or run, however the floor cleaner plays a key role: if no one cleaned the surgery rooms, the patients would actually die due to the contamination of materials.

This example is also valid here.

- Admins choose the staff for each country, moderate, clean abandoned teams, validate new ones and etc.
- Moderators moderate the forum. This might seem like an easy task but it's not. Some of them have to read more than 300 messages daily.
- Promoters do not have a role inside the game, but rather outside the game. We post advertisements of the game all over the web. We are given Plus if we advertise under estrict conditions, so if a Promoter has Plus, that means we actually worked for it.
- Linguist translate things, they have access to a private forum but they are not given any kind of Plus or reward as far as I know, even though they do not take more than a day to translate everything that can be translated.

As you see, none of us can develop the game. Our job isn't to develop, design or plan the game. We can try to post things in the private forum, yes, but we don't get answers from greg quite often. So our impact on greg is almost exactly the same as every other user that posts in other forums.

But to say our job is useless and that we are nothing... appart from doing the jobs we actually have to do, we also try to give ideas and give our best to make this a better game.
(edited)

And agen: we do our job but we can't do nothing!
I didn't ask you to develop the game! But stop elding that you are for nothing! If the reasom that you are a admin/mod it's ctitique of Gregs decision then quit from the staff if You are not agree with Greg! If te only reason to be a stuf member it's to delet abandon teams, clean the forum and spam other sites... It's a very important job! But don't forget that You was a user first of all! And users it's a most important part of any online game!
You'r do a very important and good job! I see You need this apreciation. You realy deserv Your Plus! But if You bring 100 user and only 1 will stay, does it mean that Your work is usless? Think about it befor continue to selfpromote!

Next level of your pitty "revolution":get staff members to go against devs?Just dream on:)

You are so ridiculous from a day to another.

You are so boring all the time...

I wanna help community, but not with strikes, man.

I was an user and I am still a user. I'm no different from you or anyone. I actually have to spend time on this promotion job, I had to setup my computer to spam anonymously from home, and that's not an easy job.

I won't step down as a promoter because even though I may disagree with some of the new additions to the game, my job is not developing the game and I still like it.

Don't forget that you are still playing for free. It's not like you have been forced to pay. Some things done lately might be unfair, but you can still play for free. If you don't like it, I am afraid you will have to leave the game, because neither you nor I can change anything.

If you don't support the game now but you still like it, stop buying Plus, that way things may (or may not) change things.

I think however, if you still like the game, if you spend some hours here daily (these are the main forums I visit), you may aswell contribute with just 2€ a month, and you won't suffer from annoying advertising time and you can enjoy the Arcade Matches while you keep the game alive.

You want but you don't do.

It's not like you have been forced to pay.
you think so? Sorry for you. Keep working!
(edited)

You obviously don't get it, or what I think, don't want to get it. It starts to become, or already is trolling what you are posting. Talking to you is useless, you want to piss on the forums and whatever others tell you, you won't listen and keep pissing. Have fun with that, it won't change a damn thing!!

I think greg has some kind of autism

Plus Users are hurt too, since they have to wait longer befpre posting results or discussing them in mail or forums...

I remember some time ago threads about what changes are needed to keep the game going, then some years later came threads like is sokker dying? , then followed by sokker is dying and finally we got the thread game is dead.

Well you see where its going even from that point. So just dont waste too much effort, nothing we ever did changed anything in this game. Propably the game has to be ruinded 1st to get off from a new start.
(edited)

There did change a lot. And if Greg listened too much to others, sokker never would have become the addicting game it still is.

But waiting penalty is the stile of stupid games of course :)
Won't help much and damages the impression. New users have to get addicted in their 3 days Trialplus period :))

...

Match broadcast will start in 281 seconds. Buy Plus if you don`t like to wait.

so offensive sentence..just..?
dont like it? then buy it! - THATS OUR SOKKER POLITIC! ...



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

idea for devolpers...maybe if u want to sell or buy players u will need to have PLUS?
it wud be like this :

'' You cant buy or sell players. HAAHAHAHAHA Dont like it dude? then Fuc** BUY IT! ''


(edited)

It has actually been suggested other "more subtle" ways to rewrite that text.

It should be implemented as soon as linguists do it and devs agree.