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Subject: NEWS Sokker- big changes are coming!
but making training simple would make the game boring for a lot of old users.
and much more user-friendly for new and less active users
There has to be a challenge and some kind of secret to keep it interesting. And it has to hurt a bit to form top players for U21 age.
I mean...does it hurt now, or is it:
a. close to impossible if You play at the top
b. annoying because one has to play useless friendlies
it's fine for teams in small countries or lower leagues, where you can easily play with 20-22yo players in league and train them
in top, competitive leagues you can't do that if you want to achieve anything
same with Cup - in Poland it takes almost whole season to go to the final, and again, if you want to win it, you won't be able to train 16-20yo players
the game shouldn't punish ambitious users who actually want to win instead of trading and farming in lower leagues
and much more user-friendly for new and less active users
There has to be a challenge and some kind of secret to keep it interesting. And it has to hurt a bit to form top players for U21 age.
I mean...does it hurt now, or is it:
a. close to impossible if You play at the top
b. annoying because one has to play useless friendlies
it's fine for teams in small countries or lower leagues, where you can easily play with 20-22yo players in league and train them
in top, competitive leagues you can't do that if you want to achieve anything
same with Cup - in Poland it takes almost whole season to go to the final, and again, if you want to win it, you won't be able to train 16-20yo players
the game shouldn't punish ambitious users who actually want to win instead of trading and farming in lower leagues
For me it has to hurt because you need to make decisions and compromises, and you can't have all what you want. Everyone can play league with a strong team even in Poland, but you have to chose between success in a second competition (cup) or training young players in friendlies. I meant a bit of hurt as a positive situation ;) because without that, it's just easy and straight and you need less strategy. Just my opinion, but I hope the new training system will keep this challenge.
you can't have all what you want
why not?
why playing at top level should mean losing lots of money and having to reset your team every couple of seasons?
you have to chose between success in a second competition (cup) or training young players in friendlies
yes, and why? why should I decide to lose in a national cup instead of trying to win it, just because I need to train players?
that's how the game works, but it doesn't make sense
why not?
why playing at top level should mean losing lots of money and having to reset your team every couple of seasons?
you have to chose between success in a second competition (cup) or training young players in friendlies
yes, and why? why should I decide to lose in a national cup instead of trying to win it, just because I need to train players?
that's how the game works, but it doesn't make sense
same with Cup - in Poland it takes almost whole season to go to the final, and again, if you want to win it, you won't be able to train 16-20yo players
the game shouldn't punish ambitious users who actually want to win instead of trading and farming in lower leagues
Exactly like this is in real life, and Cups are interesting for smaller teams (that can play against big ones, show themselves and earn some money) and bigger ones (that can play their 16-20 players at the beginning and start switching to top players as they advance each series). I know the game does not necessary tries to mimic reality, but I believe this part of reality is interesting, challenging, not boring.
And yes: European teams in real life cant affort playing with 11 16-20 years old players, but third-world country leagues can, to train them and sell them. Thats how real life works.
I would suggest, in case we are looking for "certain uncertainty" to reduce the 20-0 results, add some random variable that gives extra strength to weaker teams under very improbable circumstances. This would make virtually any game insteresting, just like when you expect a miracle in real life matches.
(edited)
the game shouldn't punish ambitious users who actually want to win instead of trading and farming in lower leagues
Exactly like this is in real life, and Cups are interesting for smaller teams (that can play against big ones, show themselves and earn some money) and bigger ones (that can play their 16-20 players at the beginning and start switching to top players as they advance each series). I know the game does not necessary tries to mimic reality, but I believe this part of reality is interesting, challenging, not boring.
And yes: European teams in real life cant affort playing with 11 16-20 years old players, but third-world country leagues can, to train them and sell them. Thats how real life works.
I would suggest, in case we are looking for "certain uncertainty" to reduce the 20-0 results, add some random variable that gives extra strength to weaker teams under very improbable circumstances. This would make virtually any game insteresting, just like when you expect a miracle in real life matches.
(edited)
I would suggest, in case we are looking for "certain uncertainty" to reduce the 20-0 results, add some random variable that gives extra strength to weaker teams under very improbable circumstances. This would make virtually any game insteresting, just like when you expect a miracle in real life matches.
I think we have more than enough ''random'' in this game. We don't need more of that :-/
I think we have more than enough ''random'' in this game. We don't need more of that :-/
I agree that we should reward the teams playing competitively rather that the trading / farming teams.
But if there is no restriction on the training, this will be a risk for new users and all the teams which are not currently on the top or sleeping on a huge amount on money that they will never be able to catch up.
Because if you disconnect training from playing time then top teams can play with their best 11 while using 10 training slots to trade youngsters or train their future A team players. This could be a virtuous circle almost impossible to stop.
But if there is no restriction on the training, this will be a risk for new users and all the teams which are not currently on the top or sleeping on a huge amount on money that they will never be able to catch up.
Because if you disconnect training from playing time then top teams can play with their best 11 while using 10 training slots to trade youngsters or train their future A team players. This could be a virtuous circle almost impossible to stop.
Exactly like this is in real life, and Cups are interesting for smaller teams (that can play against big ones, show themselves and earn some money) and bigger ones (that can play their 16-20 players at the beginning and start switching to top players as they advance each series). I know the game does not necessary tries to mimic reality, but I believe this part of reality is interesting, challenging, not boring.
that's not true though
in sokker weak teams get eliminated fast because they have to train 16-20yo players
in real life top teams almost always get the top spots in the cup, even though they don't use their #1 lineup from start
also, in real life top 17-21 talents are often already TOP players, like Mbappe, Foden, Vlahović, Haaland etc., in sokker it's not possible - a top 19-21yo is always a bad player
and if we're talking about real life and reality - you train during trainings, not during games. games give the experience.
that's not true though
in sokker weak teams get eliminated fast because they have to train 16-20yo players
in real life top teams almost always get the top spots in the cup, even though they don't use their #1 lineup from start
also, in real life top 17-21 talents are often already TOP players, like Mbappe, Foden, Vlahović, Haaland etc., in sokker it's not possible - a top 19-21yo is always a bad player
and if we're talking about real life and reality - you train during trainings, not during games. games give the experience.
That is true and I mentioned it from the start.
With improved income/prizes for top teams it would make it much, much less probable for the weaker teams to catch up (although it's almost impossible today without massive trading anyway...)
With improved income/prizes for top teams it would make it much, much less probable for the weaker teams to catch up (although it's almost impossible today without massive trading anyway...)
I will present some of my observations, with the intention to broaden our collective perception ;P
# A list of some sokker TOP players in age of 21:
Milanko Đapić (21) week 12
17 17
10 6
6 8
Mariusz Kuśnierz (21) week 10
17 17
9 9
9 6
Greg MacMaster (21) week 13
15 7
14 14
14 8
Dacian Iorga (21) week 9
12 9
10 17
15 6
Sven Haferkamp (21) week 12
ATT 16-15-17
Abilio Ferreira Pedro (21) week 15
ATT 15-16-17
# I've watched some weak teams in Sokker that don't get eliminated so quickly even though they coach 16-20 year old players. I think these managers know how to find a balance between weak young players and tactics.
# I have also observed in real life many examples of great teams that became weaker for a few seasons because they invested in younger players. (e.g. Ajax, Arsenal)
# And I have also observed in real life that top teams are often eliminated early in the cup because they don't use their number 1 from the beginning (at least in Germany and England).
# I know many managers who have managed to get to the top without massive trading. They have trained players effectively and sold them on.
# And I also know about Pimp (Filippo Sqad). Perhaps he tradet a lot, but starting on 2015-05-02 and just after 20 seasons winning the Ekstraklasa in Poland on 2021-11-22 is for me simple amazing!
Perhaps we would have more fun and more success with our teams if we were to ask the right questions (e.g. what was Pimp's trading strategy, or what are the special elements in the tactics of some "weak" teams).
Perhaps it's not the game, but our mentality that hides our view of the bright side of sokker life....
# A list of some sokker TOP players in age of 21:
Milanko Đapić (21) week 12
17 17
10 6
6 8
Mariusz Kuśnierz (21) week 10
17 17
9 9
9 6
Greg MacMaster (21) week 13
15 7
14 14
14 8
Dacian Iorga (21) week 9
12 9
10 17
15 6
Sven Haferkamp (21) week 12
ATT 16-15-17
Abilio Ferreira Pedro (21) week 15
ATT 15-16-17
# I've watched some weak teams in Sokker that don't get eliminated so quickly even though they coach 16-20 year old players. I think these managers know how to find a balance between weak young players and tactics.
# I have also observed in real life many examples of great teams that became weaker for a few seasons because they invested in younger players. (e.g. Ajax, Arsenal)
# And I have also observed in real life that top teams are often eliminated early in the cup because they don't use their number 1 from the beginning (at least in Germany and England).
# I know many managers who have managed to get to the top without massive trading. They have trained players effectively and sold them on.
# And I also know about Pimp (Filippo Sqad). Perhaps he tradet a lot, but starting on 2015-05-02 and just after 20 seasons winning the Ekstraklasa in Poland on 2021-11-22 is for me simple amazing!
Perhaps we would have more fun and more success with our teams if we were to ask the right questions (e.g. what was Pimp's trading strategy, or what are the special elements in the tactics of some "weak" teams).
Perhaps it's not the game, but our mentality that hides our view of the bright side of sokker life....
Those players that you pasted are pretty much useless at top level, even though most of them are actually almost 22 (week 12-15, end of season)
In real life 18yo players can make a difference in Champions League, here - no way.
# I've watched some weak teams in Sokker that don't get eliminated so quickly even though they coach 16-20 year old players. I think these managers know how to find a balance between weak young players and tactics.
or they get lucky/get even weaker opponents/their opponents don't care about the cup
# I have also observed in real life many examples of great teams that became weaker for a few seasons because they invested in younger players. (e.g. Ajax, Arsenal)
weaker yes, but not "going to 4th league for 6 seasons to rebuild" weaker.
# And I have also observed in real life that top teams are often eliminated early in the cup because they don't use their number 1 from the beginning (at least in Germany and England).
they don't do it for training, but to avoid injuries/fatigue. different story.
# I know many managers who have managed to get to the top without massive trading. They have trained players effectively and sold them on.
In countries with high competitiveness like Poland it's extremely hard. Possible, yes, if you play for years and years.
Plus - training for profit & trading is also what I meant.
# And I also know about Pimp (Filippo Sqad). Perhaps he tradet a lot, but starting on 2015-05-02 and just after 20 seasons winning the Ekstraklasa in Poland on 2021-11-22 is for me simple amazing!
perhaps...he plays since 2015 and has more bought players and paid more for transfers than I did, playing since 2006
of course if you're a massive trader you can reach the top in a couple of years
but that's the problem, this game sometimes is more about trading than football
what was Pimp's trading strategy
buy for less, sell for more
there's not really a lot you can do about trading strategy, the game is pretty simple, it's only about how much time you are willing to spend on trading in a virtual game
In real life 18yo players can make a difference in Champions League, here - no way.
# I've watched some weak teams in Sokker that don't get eliminated so quickly even though they coach 16-20 year old players. I think these managers know how to find a balance between weak young players and tactics.
or they get lucky/get even weaker opponents/their opponents don't care about the cup
# I have also observed in real life many examples of great teams that became weaker for a few seasons because they invested in younger players. (e.g. Ajax, Arsenal)
weaker yes, but not "going to 4th league for 6 seasons to rebuild" weaker.
# And I have also observed in real life that top teams are often eliminated early in the cup because they don't use their number 1 from the beginning (at least in Germany and England).
they don't do it for training, but to avoid injuries/fatigue. different story.
# I know many managers who have managed to get to the top without massive trading. They have trained players effectively and sold them on.
In countries with high competitiveness like Poland it's extremely hard. Possible, yes, if you play for years and years.
Plus - training for profit & trading is also what I meant.
# And I also know about Pimp (Filippo Sqad). Perhaps he tradet a lot, but starting on 2015-05-02 and just after 20 seasons winning the Ekstraklasa in Poland on 2021-11-22 is for me simple amazing!
perhaps...he plays since 2015 and has more bought players and paid more for transfers than I did, playing since 2006
of course if you're a massive trader you can reach the top in a couple of years
but that's the problem, this game sometimes is more about trading than football
what was Pimp's trading strategy
buy for less, sell for more
there's not really a lot you can do about trading strategy, the game is pretty simple, it's only about how much time you are willing to spend on trading in a virtual game
I also believe that we have a pretty different perspective due to how different the leagues are
Bundesliga
73.2 GDS
71.9 SC Haigerloh
70.0 Die Halbstarken
69.4 Halloren
Bonner Sport-Club
68.6 Celtic Marillion
64.8 Commando Carlsruh
64.5 Das Urgestein
Ekstraklasa
78.8 Adventoure Group
78.1 Trójkolorowi 1919
78.0 FC Fighters
77.9 The Naturals
76.7 Domik Tuchola
76.4 Filippo Sqad
63.1 ZKS Stal Gorzyce
Teams from 2nd Polish league:
78.3 Niszczyciele
76.2 vordamm
74.5 Paginator Armada
73.8 Japanese Futbol
73.4 Bergman Hindenburg
73.2 Danka`s Team
72.1 LKS Sparta Lubliniec
71.3 Anioły Zemsty
71.2 FC Glovas
70.4 FC Krościenko Wyżne
Bundesliga
73.2 GDS
71.9 SC Haigerloh
70.0 Die Halbstarken
69.4 Halloren
Bonner Sport-Club
68.6 Celtic Marillion
64.8 Commando Carlsruh
64.5 Das Urgestein
Ekstraklasa
78.8 Adventoure Group
78.1 Trójkolorowi 1919
78.0 FC Fighters
77.9 The Naturals
76.7 Domik Tuchola
76.4 Filippo Sqad
63.1 ZKS Stal Gorzyce
Teams from 2nd Polish league:
78.3 Niszczyciele
76.2 vordamm
74.5 Paginator Armada
73.8 Japanese Futbol
73.4 Bergman Hindenburg
73.2 Danka`s Team
72.1 LKS Sparta Lubliniec
71.3 Anioły Zemsty
71.2 FC Glovas
70.4 FC Krościenko Wyżne
and if we're talking about real life and reality - you train during trainings, not during games. games give the experience.
Training and Experience are two way of calling the same phenomenon. Repeat, Fail and Learn. And FOR SURE you learn more from failures in important circumstances, like matches, not during weekly training. For sure you more often learn life-long teachings or that you were wrong after failing an exam than by simply reading a book with no pressure.
Training and Experience are two way of calling the same phenomenon. Repeat, Fail and Learn. And FOR SURE you learn more from failures in important circumstances, like matches, not during weekly training. For sure you more often learn life-long teachings or that you were wrong after failing an exam than by simply reading a book with no pressure.
Well... :) .... I see your standards are pretty higher than mine and I fully agree with your comparison about Champions League and 18y. :)
I also agree, that massive trading should not be the key strategy for success and I ask myself what can we do to solve it?
I remember before some seasons developer Raul wrote about transfers:
---------------------------------------------
"2020-07-23 11:30:39 Raul an Tetryk
I have explanation.
So, current mechanism work like that:
Algoritm counts:
only non- arcade games
more than 60 minutes played in each one
What affects on player willingness to leave (all factors):
number of minutes played - if higher, higher chance to leave
Fanclub mood - when lower, than higher chance to leave
player form - when lower, higher chance to leave
number of transfers (past and ongoing) - when is high, lover chance to leave
So probably you can find answers according to it.
And please remember - we didnt introduced 4 weeks rule yet, so current mechanism works as always was, just arcade bug is fixed. no other changes in it. "
und
"2020-07-27 09:50:57 Raul an Tetryk
(...) You were right - there was a bug. Algoritm was counting minutes "with the ball", not all minutes played.
It's already fixed, We hope to avoid other cases like that. "
---------------------------------------------
So, there is an algorithm with some parameters:
1. number of minutes played - if higher, higher chance to leave
2. Fanclub mood - when lower, than higher chance to leave
3. player form - when lower, higher chance to leave
4. number of transfers (past and ongoing) - when is high, lover chance to leave
5. 4 weeks rule
Which parameter should we ask to change to solve the problem?
I think it's a n obvious question, if parameter #4 becomes stricter, then the problem will be solved. It will affect only mass traders and mass trading will become useless and destructive.
Next question: How to make parameter #4 stricter?
One idea:
IF 5-999 players bought in current season, only 4 of these players may leave on current season.
Could this solve the problem? I am interested to read also other ideas and suggestions :)
I also agree, that massive trading should not be the key strategy for success and I ask myself what can we do to solve it?
I remember before some seasons developer Raul wrote about transfers:
---------------------------------------------
"2020-07-23 11:30:39 Raul an Tetryk
I have explanation.
So, current mechanism work like that:
Algoritm counts:
only non- arcade games
more than 60 minutes played in each one
What affects on player willingness to leave (all factors):
number of minutes played - if higher, higher chance to leave
Fanclub mood - when lower, than higher chance to leave
player form - when lower, higher chance to leave
number of transfers (past and ongoing) - when is high, lover chance to leave
So probably you can find answers according to it.
And please remember - we didnt introduced 4 weeks rule yet, so current mechanism works as always was, just arcade bug is fixed. no other changes in it. "
und
"2020-07-27 09:50:57 Raul an Tetryk
(...) You were right - there was a bug. Algoritm was counting minutes "with the ball", not all minutes played.
It's already fixed, We hope to avoid other cases like that. "
---------------------------------------------
So, there is an algorithm with some parameters:
1. number of minutes played - if higher, higher chance to leave
2. Fanclub mood - when lower, than higher chance to leave
3. player form - when lower, higher chance to leave
4. number of transfers (past and ongoing) - when is high, lover chance to leave
5. 4 weeks rule
Which parameter should we ask to change to solve the problem?
I think it's a n obvious question, if parameter #4 becomes stricter, then the problem will be solved. It will affect only mass traders and mass trading will become useless and destructive.
Next question: How to make parameter #4 stricter?
One idea:
IF 5-999 players bought in current season, only 4 of these players may leave on current season.
Could this solve the problem? I am interested to read also other ideas and suggestions :)
