Subject: Team building discussion

Hello guys,
Not sure if this is the best forum to start a meaningful discussion, and I pray to god that trga oversees this topic and goes spamming somewhere else :D
Like most older users, having sold a team a few times and have rebuilt it starting with 16yo, I have fair share of experience. With new (yes, I know it has been around for almost 20 seasons, but for me it is still new) system, it is a bit different but still similar.

My goal is to exchange experience with other managers that have made their way from selling everything, and back from 16-17yo trainees to build a team that is 80+ and could potentially win a trophy (league, cup or CC).
I'd like to identify what are the actions or parameters that one takes into consideration, be it trainees-money-whatever.

And I will of course share my story and we can then follow with discussion here, or via Skmail in case spam takes over.
15ish seasons ago, I 've sold my team and after really being tired of playing Sokker competitively (plus the fact that Sokker server crashed when I sold my entire team), I chilled in lowest tier of Serbian Sokker. After a few seasons, I've felt like I could come back to playing Sokker but that I needed some fun challenge. And I've set a goal to win a golden trophy in Serbia and to make a team that can compete in Champions cup, with a twist - Serbian players only. Trainees I have allowed foreigners till I reach 1st league. Then no foreigners allowed.

I started buying, training, selling and this is where I want our discussion to head.
First key parameter is how much money is required to start such an adventure. I had about 90m € and I figured it should be enough. Depending on the league, this probably varies. Serbian league is probably not up there with Poland, or top nations (Romania, Spain...), but I would argue it is still a competitive league where most 1st league teams average 72-75, and top 3-4teams having 78+
If I ever decide to start this process again, I would say more money would be better. Probably doing a 5-6 seasons train/sell, where I think in one could make 20m €. I would feel more comfortable having 150m €, as lately top players are more and more expensive, due to loads of "whales" (to use this crypto term) buying without really asking for a price.

Second parameter are trainees. I'd say focusing on 16yo is the most efficient and overall best way to make a squad. With some good luck a talented 16yo bought for 500k € can easily turn into a monster with 25. Serbian community uses a sum of skills pace+def+tech+play+pass to grade young players. From my experience players that reach 25sum end of season 16years have decent chances of becoming player and this was my target group. Not sure if there is some other way that people estimate quality of young players?

Third parameter is trainee selection. I am in favor of selling a player that is not trainable the moment I realize he might not be the best talent. How many weeks would you say is enough? For me, after 7 weeks, I already have graphs that prove will this be a player, or am I selling him. Yes, in my case, I had a problem that pool of Serbian players is very limited and I have actually trained few not optimal talents. I would grade them 4.2-4.5 old junior school style. Still, they can be defenders :D

Fourth, and probably the most important is training. I am a hardcore believer that young players need to train pace. My way is getting them all to 15,5 pace asap. This has the advantage that I can check talent quickly, as graphs are very clear and readable as there is no backnoise from other trainings + the advantage that I get their pace to 15,5 by the time they are 19-20. After that I have one skill less in rotation, making my training more simple. Are there any other approaches?

Fifth... well, I have a few more ideas, but I guess even like this it is a very wide field for discussion. Just training ideas could be a separate topic, right...

Anyway - I have all the data in the form of an Excel sheet, where I have a decent overview of how much did my 10 trainees cost me. Also now that they are 26, I started buying 28yo to strenghten the squat.
Like I wrote I have started with 90m€, 10trainees have after some reselling, optimization and so on, cost me about 50m€, leaving me with 40m to buy older guys, goalkeepers and so on.
I will post this also here or if somebody needs it, I can send per skmail


I know, this does sound a bit nerdy, but I am a 44year old engineer :D

Looking forward to hearing your comments and maybe exchanging some good ideas, so that next time I can optimize this process.
(edited)

In general it's pretty plain and easy...

a. make money on training 16-17yo players

b. when you have enough money start looking for top talent

c. get 10 top talent players from 1-2 age groups, train them, finish the squad with money amassed on training

d. try to win trophies / prolong expiry date of your team by using money that you still have left

The details are more important but those depend on a country... in small ones you can still make extra money via training when you play at highest level, in some rating 75 will be enough, in others 80 is the minimum etc.

I'm starting my "road" now after 10 years of club inactivity... over 300m euro in account + roughly 25m/30m euro in players that I will be selling.
So far I have 2/10 players that I will keep, soon it should be 4/10. 1-2 of current ones might still stay at least for a short time.

Plan is to still have 250m euro in account after gathering 10/10 trainees. That would leave roughly 12.5m euro to spend on each training slot left (8x 12.5m = 100 m).

So far I've spent 2.5m euro on Miosi

Enzo Miosi, age: 17
club: The Evils, country: Italia
value : 431 000 zł
wage: 3 100 zł
magical [15] form
very good [9] tactical discipline
height: 183 cm, weight: 77.5 kg, BMI: 23.14

weak [4] stamina tragic [0] keeper
good [7] pace good [7] defender
adequate [6] technique good [7] playmaker
good [7] passing poor [3] striker

and 250k on Zelaya

Esteban Zelaya, age: 17
club: The Evils, country: El Salvador
value : 378 000 zł
wage: 2 900 zł
unearthly [16] form
very good [9] tactical discipline
height: 182 cm, weight: 78.5 kg, BMI: 23.7

average [5] stamina tragic [0] keeper
adequate [6] pace average [5] defender
good [7] technique good [7] playmaker
solid [8] passing unsatisfactory [2] striker

Both will stay, but Zelaya possibly as future top def, not 100% sure about him yet.
(edited)

I think that building a team in Poland is next level shit... I mean, you are currently in 5th league and for you even getting to 1st league will already be a success. Winning Extraklasa seems to me like a tougher challenge than Champions Cup in a way.
When my players turned 21, I was already able to play 2nd league so it is a very different philosophy.

Do you plan to buy 16yo trainees for your team, or going for 18yo with proven talent (and higher price)? Probably, when you start with 300m €, you are not going to bother yourself with testing talents of 16yo guys. Rather buying top 18yo talents for 10-25m € or some already trained 16yo that is 18 and has proven talent for again 10-25.

And how are your training plans then for these guys?

for example my current 3 first squad players looked like this :

age: 16
unsatisfactory stamina, tragic keeper
weak pace, average defender
poor technique, average playmaker
tragic passing, tragic striker

age: 16
tragic stamina, tragic keeper
weak pace, poor defender
weak technique, poor playmaker
average passing, weak striker

age: 16
weak stamina, tragic keeper
poor pace, average defender
unsatisfactory technique, hopeless playmaker
poor passing, hopeless striker


and the worst part - 2 of them are not really top talents :)))))))
But they are Serbs, so I kept them

I didn't really plan to start the cycle, but I luckily got Miosi who has the BEST talent I have ever had in my club and will be the best midfielder I ever trained. So that made me decide to start the cycle (and the fact that 10 seasons of training will take me 2.5 years so... if not now then never)

Actually I think otherwise... 2 seasons of talent seeking among cheap 16yo like Miosi/Zelaya... if you get none, you start again next season. Miosi with proven talent would probably cost me now 20m+, Zelaya around 12.5m. So that's already ~30m euro "profit" for me.

Then if you have 2/3/4 "lucky" 16s you just buy the rest with proven talents...

As for training plan - depending on the group, it is VERY easy now though to do that... I remember times when everyone had to train same skills... THAT was hard and required planning... starting with 6 ATT and striker training till max, then selling 3 ATT, buying some DEF/MID/wingers already with pm/passing and training them in technique, then in the end training everyone in pace + then some finishing touches...

Now there's no problem, if I want I can train 3 in defender, 3 in playmaker, 3 in striker... and even train my winger in pace as GK if he needs it...

my biggest issue is that I can no longed train defender with MID order... and I didn't know it when I started my plan :D

My whole mid line was made with the plan that when they turn 26, I set to defender on MID order and let them pop as much as possible till they are 30. Now I am 11 seasons into this cycle and in improvization mode :D

for me those 16yo trainees are the way to go... We have in Serbian community few amazing players really, that are made out of nothing.
Bought for 100-200k €, now on the way to be way over 80 (pace+tech+pm+pass+def)

As I've said I've got lucky with Miosi/Zelaya.

Miosi:
age: 16 / week 6

2 stamina, 0 keeper
5 pace, 3 defender
2 technique, 3 playmaker
5 passing, 1 striker

Zelaya:
age: 16 / week 7

3 stamina, tragic keeper
4 pace, 3 defender
5 technique, 5 playmaker
1 passing, 0 striker

so both nothing special in skills, turned out to have great talent.

unfortunately other attempts are extremely annoying, they have perfect skills distribution for training, very decent talents (and I would make great profit training them) but they're not 3.0-3.2 so I will have to get rid of them

my biggest issue is that I can no longed train defender with MID order... and I didn't know it when I started my plan :D

YUP

that's the main thing

you want to have ATT with defender - you have to do it at young age

you want MIDs with high defender - you have to do it at young age

you want DEFs with high playmaker - do it fast...

Hi neurooo!!! how you doiiiing?
Well this is probably the most interesting topic in years here....
and that´s cause the 16/17yo long term training is probably the best way to achieve a +80 team....
ofc it haves some bad things... like training +10 seassons to compete probably 5-6... but anyways is interesting HOW to do it with the bet succes...
IMO, and with hours of research in this game i think i can talk, even if i didn´t do it myself.
In Argentina we have 2 teams doing it right now and ofc i am very familiar with for example Sky monsters or Bronca Boys that are top users with CC´s won using mostly this method...
I think you doing it with only serbians makes the task almost impossible... cause the key of this is finding <3.3 talents in 2 age groups 16/17...
about Third parameter i cant talk in a public forum... my info is gold, and i cant spread it for free :PPP
"Fourth, and probably the most important is training"
here i agree with you, but i saw recently borkos and mikoos talking about that pace training first is the same that training it at the end... in my mind is hard to believe but i guess if they are saying it it must be true....
anyways... i wish you the best of luck with it....
checking on your 3 16yo´s, they dont seem to be top, first one mid SS is 17... so he is far from being top, at least 4-6 points...
about 2nd one he is also behind in ATT ss, by 2-3 points also....
and the last one is i think nonsense to train in long term...
with this i dont want to offend you, all the opposite, i think they are not the ideal players to train +10 seassons :/

Well this is probably the most interesting topic in years here....
- hi buddy,
- I agree, great topic :))))))))

In Argentina we have 2 teams doing it right now and ofc i am very familiar with for example Sky monsters or Bronca Boys that are top users with CC´s won using mostly this method...
- yes, sure Sky Monsters and Broncas are typical example of doing this. And they do it correctly every time. They have a very good system. Greetings to both of them :)

I think you doing it with only serbians makes the task almost impossible... cause the key of this is finding <3.3 talents in 2 age groups 16/17...
- my players are 26-28now, and I am close to 80 mark... so impossible is nothing :)

checking on your 3 16yo´s, they dont seem to be top, first one mid SS is 17... so he is far from being top, at least 4-6 points...
about 2nd one he is also behind in ATT ss, by 2-3 points also....
and the last one is i think nonsense to train in long term...
with this i dont want to offend you, all the opposite, i think they are not the ideal players to train +10 seassons :/
- I fully agree with you my friend, but I was very limited and I had to train what was available. So my only option was to train them.
- those 3 guys are now 26 and they look like this :

formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
divine [17] pace superdivine [18] defender
formidable [11] technique incredible [13] playmaker
incredible [13] passing solid [8] striker

formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
divine [17] pace divine [17] defender
excellent [10] technique unearthly [16] playmaker
outstanding [12] passing solid [8] striker

formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
divine [17] pace divine [17] defender
formidable [11] technique formidable [11] playmaker
outstanding [12] passing very good [9] striker

point being, any player can become a decent defender :))))
(edited)

yeah you have to do it with young age but it should´t be a problem...

OUuh!!!! You allready have train them! I thought you were starting now...
i am sry for that!
well, they are really nice defs, but not TOP.
but anyways CONGRATZ
Your task of doing it with just serbians is really hard

yes, yes... I am already on 11th season of this cyclus. So the first two thirds are done.
Now last third when I need to try to win trophies.
They are definitely not best of their age in the world, I know. But they are good Serbian guys :)))))) Very much the whole team has like 0 world class players, but all are very strong. That is the difference between 80 and 83 team :)

That is why I have very good data and am open for discussion :)

well now you have to try to achieve glory with them... the question is until when you are gonna keep them and what are you going to do next...
if still only serbians, or maybe east-europe xD

Nice topic and even nicer responses.

BoydStevens, can you please point to this, where can I read it?

"Fourth, and probably the most important is training"
here i agree with you, but i saw recently borkos and mikoos talking about that pace training first is the same that training it at the end... in my mind is hard to believe but i guess if they are saying it it must be true....

Neuro and I have different opinions on pace-first approach, and I would like to see what borkos and mikoos wrote.

Thank you.