Subject: Team building discussion

steady income from training beats sponsors and stadiun income

Yup, that's the issue many users wrongly concentrate on - getting less from sponsors / tickets. Many see that as something that stops them from building a good team because they rely mostly on ticket/sponsor money and generate no income via training, while THIS is actually the much more lucrative income and it's easier to do in smaller countries.

one simply needs to make a decision or to make a plan so to say

My goal is to win trophies, golden ones, top tier league/cup and CC. And for that, I am willing to take the beating 10-15seasons and then shine 3-5seasons.
People often want to stay long on top (dont we all hehehhehe), but sometimes you need to change the pose ;)

my cycle is :
- I am fed up with Sokker and I train a few players - 2-3 seasons
- I am farming 4+ (muuuch longer in big countries)
- 16yo trainees bought and till the turn 32 - 16seasons


usually it is 25seasons, and my trophy winning sequence confirms this

steady income from training beats sponsors and stadium income


Can't agree more! But actually never had patience to train in cycles and sell my whole team every now and then! :)

Hope I didn't made some big mistakes in this first 10 seasons, as every bad decision should be first visible after ~1 year!


This time I go with team built of mostly 20y players (all 6 are U21 members at age 20 - 3 Hrvatska, România, España, Česká republika). Their talent is already proven and I found players with similar training requirements. Have 5 Hrvatska players in my team, so I'm happy I can make contribution to Hrvatska U21/National team - it was important objective to me! And it could be fun achievement to train 16y (home grown) player from my 3rd season to NT (now 23y)!

My next objective is to play 1. League in 4 seasons (worst case) from now with 8 of my 10 current trainees. Probably I'll need to sell 2 of them to make some money, as with aproximately +100k/w I can't rely on stadium and sponsors income, as mentioned above. It should get even worse as my players salary rise from current 190k, and have already 223k trainers salary (1x16, 4x15).


What ss (main skills) is just above average or good at age 21 for strikers, midfielders and defenders with "new" system?

I plan to have in 1st week:
Striker:
21y - 39 (pace/tech/str)
Midfielder:
21y - 47-48 (pace/tech/pass/play)
Defender:
21y - 28-30 (pace/def), 50 with secondaries (~21 tech/pass/play)

I know it is rather low but this is realistic for all not-top teams.
Top teams probably have their way and budget to make top team, and stay there.
I'm aiming this discussion to be good pathway to average users too:


What is best time to start with defenders secondary skills training so they can reach ~18/18 (at least over 17) anyway and minimal 30 in secondaries: 21y 15/15 or 22y 16/16 and then secondary skills training?

Is it better to train midfielders as wingers (less playmaker) as they don't have high defender skill:

16
16 14
16

or

15
15 16
16

can be better used?

I didn't have chance to test such players. And it can be good guidance for users in similar situation to tweak few things on time and avoid mistakes.


Did someone found way to use midfielders with high striker skill in tactics (long shots, set pieces, false 9)?

Like this one:

20y

adequate [6] stamina unsatisfactory [2] keeper
outstanding [12] pace good [7] defender
formidable [11] technique outstanding [12] playmaker
formidable [11] passing formidable [11] striker
(edited)

What ss (main skills) is just above average or good at age 21 for strikers, midfielders and defenders with "new" system?

I plan to have in 1st week:
Striker:
21y - 39 (pace/tech/str)
Midfielder:
21y - 47-48 (pace/tech/pass/play)
Defender:
21y - 28-30 (pace/def), 50 with secondaries (~21 tech/pass/play)

The sumskills mentioned are certainly above average for first week of 21y. Not top world class but very high quality. For example, there is not a single 39pts ATT sold at 20y in last 6 seasons (i know because I plan to sell one :p)

What is best time to start with defenders secondary skills training so they can reach ~18/18 (at least over 17) anyway and minimal 30 in secondaries: 21y 15/15 or 22y 16/16 and then secondary skills training?


22y 16/16 is ok but you will be limited to train mostly secondaries after that. You don't want to max out your defs too early (not the end of the world but you're wasting all the general trainings afterwards), so plan your training so that you reach 18/18 around 28y, not much earlier.

Also it is a good idea to boost their playmaker while you are in non-competitive mode, so that you don't have to set defenders with MID order when you are playing for results.

Is it better to train midfielders as wingers (less playmaker) as they don't have high defender skill:


Usually yes but you don't want to have only wingers on your team. So its not too late to turn a winger into a CM or just trade on the market if their defending is very low.

16
16 14
16

or

15
15 16
16

can be better used?

First one imo.

Thank you for answering my questions!


The sumskills mentioned are certainly above average for first week of 21y. Not top world class but very high quality. For example, there is not a single 39pts ATT sold at 20y in last 6 seasons (i know because I plan to sell one :p)

Great! This was my budget-option as I tried to avoid 2 more 5-7 seasons training cycles.


Also it is a good idea to boost their playmaker while you are in non-competitive mode, so that you don't have to set defenders with MID order when you are playing for results.

It seems best time is right after World Cup to train defenders playmaker skill. Technique and passing can be trained with DEF order anyway. All 3 defenders are around same playmaker level and probably similar talent.


Usually yes but you don't want to have only wingers on your team. So its not too late to turn a winger into a CM or just trade on the market if their defending is very low.

For example:

adequate [6] stamina unsatisfactory [2] keeper
outstanding +2 [12] pace good +1 [7] defender
formidable +1 [11] technique outstanding +1 [12] playmaker
formidable [11] passing formidable [11] striker

and

very good [9] stamina hopeless [1] keeper
outstanding +2 [12] pace poor +1 [3] defender
outstanding +2 [12] technique excellent +1 [10] playmaker
formidable +2 [11] passing unsatisfactory [2] striker

Is this difference enough to play this two players on different positions (CM, WING)? Is 7-8 defender at age 20 too low for CM and should be trained few levels?
This is doubt I have: training only wing skills, and let defender untrained or train first one defender skill now and risk lower technique at age 26.

I had only one:

16.5 15
14.5 12.5
12.5

player so far and he was awful as def-mid or defender at high(er) level. So I doubt training defender to midfielders makes sense if their defender skill stays under 12-13 level (better focus training on pace/tech/pass/play). Am I wrong?


Now I have two 18y 40ss def-mid in training and I consider to make defenders from them (8 and 10 def).
3rd 18y 40ss def-mid should be winger as his def is only ~3, and striker should pop to 8 soon.

Have also 23y striker, he should be 17/15.5/15 at next season start. Is it better to keep (form 18 over long time) or sell him and try to have all players at same age? I tought it is nice to have better first striker at higher level even he is 3y older as second one...
(edited)

The first one could easily be converted into a CM, but then you will lose the high striker in wingers perk, which some people like. So its up to you to decide.

The same for ATT sutiation, there isnt wrong answer. Older striker in a young and still average team will win single-handedly points vs other average teams. But he will be too old in the last years of the main squad's peak.

Agree! Probably is better for me to make them harder to catch, as forcing them to win maybe 2 tackles pro match with 10-11 def.

And striker is from my YS, so I don't lose much if I sell him later...

Thanks, again! Much appreciated!

I can help you with defs and mids

for defs at 21, first week of season - 55 good, 57+ great
for mids at 21, few skills more - 58 good, 61+ great

this all with pace about 15-16

for defs at 21, first week of season - 55 good, 57+ great
for mids at 21, few skills more - 58 good, 61+ great

Oh... for me even 52 with all GT ups would be great. Does it make difference if they are high at pace-def (around brilliant-magical level) and have 21ss secondaries!
I was U21 coach over 5 seasons and I never had 55 def at age 21 in my team! Think 53 was best (but low defender ~12), now is NT at age 25.

For midfielders, only if I calculate striker skill, then I have one good midfielder! :) But second one is just average...
Damn, I didn't have any great midfielders too in my U21 team - it seems, not even Žakula was great! He was "only" 60 (without striker).

I'm afraid now to ask is it 61+ with or without defender! :))

Seriously now, have looked at 20y transfers lately and 58 was sold for almost 20M, next 56ss 12M. But if we look purely, without def, second one was worse as my average midfielder.
(edited)

my defs looked like this - first day 21yo

formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
unearthly [16] pace outstanding [12] defender
solid [8] technique very good [9] playmaker
excellent [10] passing adequate [6] striker

very good [9] stamina tragic [0] keeper
unearthly [16] pace formidable [11] defender
very good [9] technique solid [8] playmaker
excellent [10] passing solid [8] striker


and those are very much ok defs, but nothing jaw-dropping

I should have:

excellent [10] stamina tragic [0] keeper
magical [15] pace magical [15] defender
solid [8] technique adequate [6] playmaker
good [7] passing


average [5] stamina tragic [0] keeper
brilliant [14] pace magical [15] defender
average [5] technique average [5] playmaker
formidable [11] passing


weak [4] stamina tragic [0] keeper
brilliant [14] pace brilliant [14] defender
formidable [11] technique adequate [6] playmaker
average [5] passing

Last 2 have imo 2+ trainings over 11 in passing and technique. Maybe they jump in next few weeks, maybe not.
(edited)

"steady income from training beats sponsors and stadium income"

I am well aware, but this is the key issue I have with this game. It's a training/financial simulator more than a tactical game.
I know HOW to make money, but it involves being non-competitive, or in a dead league below ML. There's literally no motivation to log in at that point.

When I first began, our A leagues were OK, not great, not bad. Now? Absolute wasteland. I play this game for tactics, and winning simply doesn't pay in this game. This is a fundamental problem for me, and if I decide to up and quit one day, this will be why.
(edited)

It is ironic because I play one other soccer simulator game and there, I have the exact opposite problem.

I have a U21 team full of youth school players. My main roster is 70% American players. I am sitting on a comfortable amount of money because in THAT game you can both train youth AND compete at the same time. Unlike here. My youth school gives me an adequate supply of talented enough players. Unlike here.
However, the match engine at 'this other game' is absolute trash, and tactics are fairly limited.

There's no tactical engine like sokker's and its why I came back and stick around. This money micromanagement is a real downer since things can't be done concurrently.

I would love some sort of league where everyone got the same exact players and competed this way. It'll never happen but I would love to be in that scenario and learn more.
(edited)

It is manager game after all, and you need to run club and not only coach your team. :)

My problem was I always tried something with players I had on disposal, to play and compete with almost first players I bought combined with few old ones. But without money it is near impossible to do it.
Then I made 50M out of nothing (around 500k invested) and now I try to make much stronger and balanced team. I bought few quality players for good price, and have 3 home grown players (around 30M worth).

Someone said to me: "You can't rely on pure luck and go with cheap players all the time! You will probably never play 1st league, not even in Hrvatska, which is lower tier Sokker country!"
Well, challenge accepted! But it takes time in Sokker to prove a point... :))