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Subject: [DEV] International Cup
In theory yes, if top teams playing corner tactics get drawn against other top teams.
It is highly unlikely to happen though and much more probable is that they will end up playing against opponents with smallest fan clubs in the game, which would mean very low tickets.
Div 6 has 28 groups with 32 subgroups each with 4 teams in each subgroup = 3584 teams.
In other words impossible that lowest division will become a group of high level teams playing corner tactics against each other and collecting good ticket money.
(edited)
It is highly unlikely to happen though and much more probable is that they will end up playing against opponents with smallest fan clubs in the game, which would mean very low tickets.
Div 6 has 28 groups with 32 subgroups each with 4 teams in each subgroup = 3584 teams.
In other words impossible that lowest division will become a group of high level teams playing corner tactics against each other and collecting good ticket money.
(edited)
Guys, I just realized something in the International Cup that blew my mind.
I'm on Level 2, Cup 1. My group is Group 2. I started looking at the other groups in my cup (there are 32 groups in total) and I noticed that in every group I looked at, there were at least a couple of really strong teams. Seriously strong teams. And I thought: damn, this second division is incredibly competitive…
As you know, there are two cups in Level 2 of the International Cup. So I decided to look at Cup 2. I kept going through the groups and didn't recognize any of the teams (except for a few Spanish ones). So I thought: I'll check the performance of the top teams in each group: and I saw that there are group leaders in Cup 2 with a performance rating of less than 60. In fact, I can barely find four teams that reach a 75% performance rating across the 32 groups (whereas in Cup 1, the top three groups alone had that many teams). In other words, the difference between Cup 1 and Cup 2 is enormous. It can't be just luck. Impossible.
Then I think: I'll look at the ranking points of the leaders of each group in Cup 1 and then in Cup 2.
I started in Cup 1, and all the leaders, absolutely all the leaders, at least up to group 12 or 14, had over 6000 ranking points. I stopped there. I had enough information.
I went to Cup 2 and did the same exercise and discovered, to my horror, that none of the leaders, NONE OF THEM, reached 6000 ranking points. In fact, there are ridiculously weak groups.
The conclusion I've reached is that DEVS used an algorithm based on ranking points, but within each division, they created subdivisions. So, those with the best rankings ALL went to Cup 1, and those with the worst rankings went to Cup 2, instead of distributing the best rankings between the two cups.
The result is Cup 1, which is at the level of a first division, and Cup 2, which is at the level of a third division.
This has no impact on level 1, and on levels three and below, since there are many trophies, it's harder to see. Because among so many trophies, it's more difficult to spot with the naked eye. But on level two, where there are only two cup, it's outrageous.
It's possible the same thing will happen at lower levels: Cup 1 being the most difficult and the last cup at the same level being easier.
But it's outrageous because the disadvantage to some teams and the advantage to others is terrible. It also distorts the competition. Many teams from Cup 2 will get promoted because the level is much lower, while teams from Cup 1, despite having fantastic squads, won't. I think it's terrible
(edited)
I'm on Level 2, Cup 1. My group is Group 2. I started looking at the other groups in my cup (there are 32 groups in total) and I noticed that in every group I looked at, there were at least a couple of really strong teams. Seriously strong teams. And I thought: damn, this second division is incredibly competitive…
As you know, there are two cups in Level 2 of the International Cup. So I decided to look at Cup 2. I kept going through the groups and didn't recognize any of the teams (except for a few Spanish ones). So I thought: I'll check the performance of the top teams in each group: and I saw that there are group leaders in Cup 2 with a performance rating of less than 60. In fact, I can barely find four teams that reach a 75% performance rating across the 32 groups (whereas in Cup 1, the top three groups alone had that many teams). In other words, the difference between Cup 1 and Cup 2 is enormous. It can't be just luck. Impossible.
Then I think: I'll look at the ranking points of the leaders of each group in Cup 1 and then in Cup 2.
I started in Cup 1, and all the leaders, absolutely all the leaders, at least up to group 12 or 14, had over 6000 ranking points. I stopped there. I had enough information.
I went to Cup 2 and did the same exercise and discovered, to my horror, that none of the leaders, NONE OF THEM, reached 6000 ranking points. In fact, there are ridiculously weak groups.
The conclusion I've reached is that DEVS used an algorithm based on ranking points, but within each division, they created subdivisions. So, those with the best rankings ALL went to Cup 1, and those with the worst rankings went to Cup 2, instead of distributing the best rankings between the two cups.
The result is Cup 1, which is at the level of a first division, and Cup 2, which is at the level of a third division.
This has no impact on level 1, and on levels three and below, since there are many trophies, it's harder to see. Because among so many trophies, it's more difficult to spot with the naked eye. But on level two, where there are only two cup, it's outrageous.
It's possible the same thing will happen at lower levels: Cup 1 being the most difficult and the last cup at the same level being easier.
But it's outrageous because the disadvantage to some teams and the advantage to others is terrible. It also distorts the competition. Many teams from Cup 2 will get promoted because the level is much lower, while teams from Cup 1, despite having fantastic squads, won't. I think it's terrible
(edited)
The conclusion I've reached is that DEVS used an algorithm based on ranking points, but within each division, they created subdivisions. So, those with the best rankings ALL went to Cup 1, and those with the worst rankings went to Cup 2, instead of distributing the best rankings between the two cups.
XDDDDDDD
incredible
XDDDDDDD
incredible
Could you report this on the Polish forums so they can fix it for future seasons? It's a very serious error.
I don't think this season will be resolved, even though it's a very unfair situation
And I have doubts, Geston, read this. :S
I don't think this season will be resolved, even though it's a very unfair situation
And I have doubts, Geston, read this. :S
no chance they can touch it this season after 2 games...
Im sure Geston will see this post, but I will let him know so he can pass it to programmers
Im sure Geston will see this post, but I will let him know so he can pass it to programmers
I thought that this was on purpose to make it "fair" for weaker teams so that they have a chance in their respective group, so that those managers are more immersed in the IC - Not that this is actually "fair" in my opinion, but of course it helps weaker teams like mine a lot.
I am really curious if this is really mistake or a conscious decision.
I am really curious if this is really mistake or a conscious decision.
I will confirm that with dev.
It was clearly said how it should work - I mean sorting teams.
First of all - result in previous season. One global table that sort teams by:
- division in previous season
- stage in cup / place in group
- points
- goal difference
- goals scored
- RANKING POINTS - as a last condition
This is how I descibed it to dev long time ago.
(edited)
It was clearly said how it should work - I mean sorting teams.
First of all - result in previous season. One global table that sort teams by:
- division in previous season
- stage in cup / place in group
- points
- goal difference
- goals scored
- RANKING POINTS - as a last condition
This is how I descibed it to dev long time ago.
(edited)
It's possible that they actually did that but the rank points simply coincided with stage in cup / place in group / points (...) from last season... although not likely
bigger problem is that the seeding seems to be messed up and it takes top 128 teams and distributes them to first Main Group and then creates 1-4 pot seeding out of those 128 teams and distributes them accordingly to 32 groups. in other words Main Group 1 is made up with top 1-128 teams, Main Group 2 is made up with top 129-256 teams and so on.
it should start with creating the 1-4 pots from all teams in division and only then add RANDOM 32 pot 1 teams to Main Group 1, random 32 pot 2 teams to main group 1 and so on.
(edited)
bigger problem is that the seeding seems to be messed up and it takes top 128 teams and distributes them to first Main Group and then creates 1-4 pot seeding out of those 128 teams and distributes them accordingly to 32 groups. in other words Main Group 1 is made up with top 1-128 teams, Main Group 2 is made up with top 129-256 teams and so on.
it should start with creating the 1-4 pots from all teams in division and only then add RANDOM 32 pot 1 teams to Main Group 1, random 32 pot 2 teams to main group 1 and so on.
(edited)
That is also described and is going to be verified.
First, where the problem could occur is sorting the global table.
Then – seeding in CUPS (not in groups) – as an example: having 4 cups (3rd division), teams are going to cups: 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-1, 6-2, 7-3, 8-4... or 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-4, 6-3, 7-2, 8-1...
The last thing that has to be verified is how teams were seeded in groups -> they should be placed in groups without shuffling, group by group from 1 to 32, not 1, 32, 2, 31 or 1, 17, 2, 18, 3, 19, 4, 20... It is also important, because the "shuffle" is done later by how the cup ladder is created. So it has to be done in order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ... 31, 32.
All is described once again, passed to dev for verification.
This season nothing more can be done. But we must be sure it works as described next season.
First, where the problem could occur is sorting the global table.
Then – seeding in CUPS (not in groups) – as an example: having 4 cups (3rd division), teams are going to cups: 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-1, 6-2, 7-3, 8-4... or 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-4, 6-3, 7-2, 8-1...
The last thing that has to be verified is how teams were seeded in groups -> they should be placed in groups without shuffling, group by group from 1 to 32, not 1, 32, 2, 31 or 1, 17, 2, 18, 3, 19, 4, 20... It is also important, because the "shuffle" is done later by how the cup ladder is created. So it has to be done in order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ... 31, 32.
All is described once again, passed to dev for verification.
This season nothing more can be done. But we must be sure it works as described next season.
I don't know how it should work, but you only have to take a quick look at the groups in Cup 1 and then at the groups in Cup 2 of the second division, and you'll easily see that the best and highest-ranked teams are all in Cup 1, while most of the weaker teams are in Cup 2. In other words, something has gone wrong. That's for sure.
The most worrying thing is that the damage is already done. The reality is that of the 32 teams that will be promoted to the top tier, roughly half, 16, wouldn't have made it if the groups had been distributed correctly. And it will be an easier first division. On the other hand, great teams that could have reached the top flight this season won't have a chance. I consider this a serious mistake.
The most worrying thing is that the damage is already done. The reality is that of the 32 teams that will be promoted to the top tier, roughly half, 16, wouldn't have made it if the groups had been distributed correctly. And it will be an easier first division. On the other hand, great teams that could have reached the top flight this season won't have a chance. I consider this a serious mistake.
If there is mistake (probably there is) - yes, it is serious. Still, don't think that something can be done.
You have done a very good analysis.
I also saw that I had very tough teams in my group, I have checked all the other 31 groups at my level and I was wondering how the level of the teams increased so much from last season, and I am just in the second division. Now i understood why, because I am in the Cup 1 :)
In the end this is it for this season, at least to solve it for the next one...
One point for the future: it would be very interesting for us to also have the league, division, Cup statistics. Similar with the ones we have in our national leagues.
I also saw that I had very tough teams in my group, I have checked all the other 31 groups at my level and I was wondering how the level of the teams increased so much from last season, and I am just in the second division. Now i understood why, because I am in the Cup 1 :)
In the end this is it for this season, at least to solve it for the next one...
One point for the future: it would be very interesting for us to also have the league, division, Cup statistics. Similar with the ones we have in our national leagues.
well, honestly, we are by now all used to standars procedure
- big changes implemented in last moment
- major problem
- spending time to fix it
in the process some guys that make 10-15season plans get screwed up :D
- big changes implemented in last moment
- major problem
- spending time to fix it
in the process some guys that make 10-15season plans get screwed up :D
in some paralel universe a guy like me that has spent now 13 seasons building a team made of only Serbian players (and this is not easy), that wanted to compete in CC, then ended in tier2 IC and is getting surprised every season with "new feature" would probably be mad or at least disappointed.... but I expected nothing less :)))))