Subject: [DEV] International Cup

So you saying in Polish forum this was not discussed ? And the importance of as high position you finished is not important ..and I just for first time of many seasons I gave up to compete due injuries 6 7 at same time is not decision I will not make if I know this in beginning of season...

So, starting with the season AFTER the next one, the schedule should look like this, correct?

sunday - league
monday - friendly/ NC
tuesday - youth
wednesday - league 2
thursday - none
friday - international cup
saturday - NT

To be clear, I am very happy with this new tournament. The money concern was answered and I am sure they will get it right soon after implementation.
I want to ask about the injury concerns that will result from needing to try in 3/4 different matches instead of 2/3.

I know some of you will say 'carry more players', but to this I would answer that many teams, including mine, are consistently playing to win, not farm cash. As a result, keeping a roster of viable player size of 25+ is economically just not viable. Stadium income and actual success is what I suspect a considerable majority of users in this game rely on (forum posters our a significant minority, and by and large both LONG time players, and economically success here)

edit: I guess I just wonder if this shouldn't just stay an arcade tournament. Injuries are already pretty rough, and the reduction of stadium income will make it difficult for any team in America not in ML to be able to just tread water/break even economically.
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Same information about International Cup was posted on Polish forum and on this forum

Raul mentioned International Cup many seasons ago

International Cup starting probably next season was already announced before at same time in Polish forum and on this forum

Not true here you will play many polish teams in group stage at some point cl with some luck you can win...

I agree.

This season is crucial for determining your final ranking in the International Cup.
It should have been announced before this season.
It's very unfair that, to organize teams into tiers, they're using the results of a season where the importance of your final position wasn't known.
The right and fair thing to do is wait another season before making the initial distribution, now that it's been announced. After all, the next season will be in arcade mode as a test.
The final initial distribution can wait another season.

This season is crucial for determining your final ranking in the International Cup.

It's only INITIAL ranking not final...

and the highest level will be almost exactly the same as for the Champions Cup

level 2 will be for teams 129-384 / level 3 for teams 385-896

it's really not an issue if you play first Arcade season in level 2 or level 3... what's the difference? 1 season and you're in 2nd, 2 seasons and you're in 1st...

and the same way someone else can say that 1 season is not enough, it should be announce 5 season earlier so he can prepare and go to a level he wants... it's pointless in my opinion
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Of course, the discussion took place in many places, on Polish and international forums. We discussed how it MIGHT look, not how it will look 100%.

Currently, in some places, we are discussing, for example, how we could improve the form or youth school.

I'm not here to argue. If you want to complain, I'm out.
I'm putting a lot of effort into this anyway, I don't need any additional complaints or explanations.

That's right, I don't mind playing in the top division or the second. Time will tell. I'm glad to know I'll be able to play in this competition every season. Sometimes it's frustrating to finish second in the Cup or the League at your team's peak and not be able to play in the CC. Now, the team's consistency over time will be valued.

That is true

Also one very unlucky game in 1st round (15:2 shots, 1:2 etc.) won't "kill" your season because it starts with 6 group games...

it would be a terrible experience for most teams (6k out of ~8k) who would be "forever" destined to play at 9-10 level and thus this competition would be a waste of time for them


I don't understand this argument. Levels 9-10 in this version are the same as levels 5-6 in the official structure. It's a space for the weakest teams, and if they can't climb up from here, it's the same experience. The experience is different only for the strongest teams, and I think it's a better experience—with more balanced teams and fewer farmers.

I was able to play at level ~65 already with 21-22yo trainees so I would still probably very easily reach the level 1-2 while my team was reaching its peak level at age 25-26.


I cannot agree. I suppose there are a few hundred teams with a rating of around 70+, so you won't be able to start climbing the top 5 levels with players aged 21-22. I'm guessing here, but if it is estimated that this way will still be easy for farmers, a few more levels with one league could be added.

If anything I think it would be a problem for normal teams in my opinion who also go through peak/low spells and would have problems in reaching level 1-3 since so few teams would go up every season.

I strongly disagree here, its just mathematically incorrect. In any case, 128 teams will be in the top tournament. The fewer farmers there are, the more places there will be for normal teams, so it will be easier for them to reach elite.

every team will have same chance to win the International Cup as it had to win the Champions Cup


Again, strongly disagree. I am almost certain that in the current format there will never be a winner with a rating below 80, i.e. who is not a farmer. There will simply be too many mega teams for a normal team to hope to win with some luck in 2-3 matches as it is now in CC. A Bulgarian guy has won two CC titles without ever reaching an 80 rating, playing the normal way. This will not be possible in a format where all farmers can be together in the top tournament.

And I find this to be a big problem - the game should not promote grinding and spending cycles. And I say this as a team owner who could easily buy the most expensive 11 players on the market within a calendar year.

It's only INITIAL ranking not final...


What you've written is incorrect.

It's a final initial distribution.

After the tiered distribution that will be implemented now, you'll only be able to reach level 1 through promotion.

That means that if, for example, you finished last this season, you have 11 teams ahead of you to reach a higher level.

If you had known this, you could have invested your savings in achieving a top position in the league to reach the next level.

We couldn't say how it will looks like a season ago...
Still I don't know what place should I have in my league to play in international cup div 2nd or 3rd... It is possible that when I reach top 8 I will play in second, but places 9-12 -> 3rd. But it is just my guess...

right? we have a dev actually doing things.

We should be super thankful :)

I don't understand this argument. Levels 9-10 in this version are the same as levels 5-6 in the official structure. It's a space for the weakest teams, and if they can't climb up from here, it's the same experience. The experience is different only for the strongest teams, and I think it's a better experience—with more balanced teams and fewer farmers.

they are not IMO
the overall amount of players is the same/similar, but in your scenario there is a very narrow bottleneck where only a handful of teams can promote to 7th division and even less can promote higher, so most teams will remain on same level every season (too good to go down, too bad to go up)

Again, strongly disagree. I am almost certain that in the current format there will never be a winner with a rating below 80, i.e. who is not a farmer. There will simply be too many mega teams for a normal team to hope to win with some luck in 2-3 matches as it is now in CC. A Bulgarian guy has won two CC titles without ever reaching an 80 rating, playing the normal way. This will not be possible in a format where all farmers can be together in the top tournament.

I think you are strongly exaggerating the number of "farmers"... and those farmers are usually the teams that already play in CC after winning League / Cup, it's not like you have 10 post-farming teams playing at same time in Poland

I cannot agree. I suppose there are a few hundred teams with a rating of around 70+, so you won't be able to start climbing the top 5 levels with players aged 21-22. I'm guessing here, but if it is estimated that this way will still be easy for farmers, a few more levels with one league could be added.

I don't think there are hundreds of 70+ teams, based on average ratings from 100+ users countries:

52 in Poland
27 in Italy
18 in Romania
13 in Brasil
12 in Spain
12 in France
11 in Germany
10 in Ceska Rep
9 in Belgium
9 in Greece
8 in Hungary
5 in Turkiye
3 in England
2 in Vietnam
1 in Argentina

In total: 192, you can probably find 20 or 30 more in other leagues, so we can even round it up to higher amount and say there are 250 teams playing regularly for 70 or more.

all of them will fill up your first 2 divisions, so as I've said... staying in middle level and promoting to highest level will be NO PROBLEM for "farmers" / rebuilding teams...

top 23-24yo players already can reach individual ratings of 75-80, especially ATTs and wingers, so post-farming teams training their team for top will already be able to climb high while their players will be at age 21 (you can supplement them with old players, obvious that nobody will play top 21yos in 3 games a week), at age 23-24 they will probably already be able to reach 2nd level of your model
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You missed a lot of countries with strong first tier league, so there must be much more..

For instance 6 in Serbia + me with 69,4 and using some young players.
There are others like us for sure.

I can't believe there are only 5 70+ teams in Turkey or 3 in England..

Check England for yourself

This is English first division average ratings, there were seasons when they had only 1 team playing for 70+ (Wdp), I'm actually surprised by Argentina more than England.

76.5 Elmstead Legends
70.2 RTS Widzew Łódz
Timisoara UK
69.7 Thamesmead Town FC
69.5 Internazionlle FC
68.9 Rock Bottom
68.2 Padstow Rovers
67.5 Man United 1995-96
65.3 Chuck Norris FC
65.0 Legia Będzin
64.5 Stiffs
58.3 CanOnlyGetBetter

And it doesn't make a difference, even if you get 384 such teams (you won't get even close to that) then it's still only Top 3 tiers. And playing for 70+ rating for top teams will be already easily possible with 23yo players so as I've said, very easy to "float" at level 5 or 6 and then just go up... doesn't matter if you make 10 or 15 tiers there's a limited number of teams that will be an issue for a farming team that plays for ~60 while using old players bought for peanuts
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