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Subject: [DEV] International Cup
5 coaches equals 500k in your opinion? If I had 5 unearthly coaches I pay around 300k. If I have 10 top class players I pay 600k. They all cost 60k weekly. You know that players wages are what really weigh on your weekly Cost. Don't try to twist it with wrong data. The fact you think coach wages are the biggest means that you're not playing with top players. Because you don't need them to be able to play on high tiers in your country.
Summary
This week
Season to date
Projected result
Last season
Player salaries
840 000 BGN
1 680 000 BGN
10 920 000 BGN
10 521 250 BGN
Coach salaries
515 500 BGN
1 031 000 BGN
5 483 800 BGN
6 701 500 BGN
Stadium
108 000 BGN
216 000 BGN
1 404 000 BGN
1 404 000 BGN
Youth academy
46 000 BGN
90 000 BGN
574 000 BGN
508 000 BGN
Coach recruitment
864 000 BGN
Temporary
Profit and compensation
Summary
1 509 500 BGN
3 017 000 BGN
18 381 800 BGN
19 998 750 BGN
This week
Season to date
Projected result
Last season
Player salaries
840 000 BGN
1 680 000 BGN
10 920 000 BGN
10 521 250 BGN
Coach salaries
515 500 BGN
1 031 000 BGN
5 483 800 BGN
6 701 500 BGN
Stadium
108 000 BGN
216 000 BGN
1 404 000 BGN
1 404 000 BGN
Youth academy
46 000 BGN
90 000 BGN
574 000 BGN
508 000 BGN
Coach recruitment
864 000 BGN
Temporary
Profit and compensation
Summary
1 509 500 BGN
3 017 000 BGN
18 381 800 BGN
19 998 750 BGN
What I mean is that I already know and agree with you. I think you just misunderstood what I tried to say earlier.
I am sure that you can continue this very long conversation regarding training, coach salaries and making money, on some dedicated topic for that.
Thanks.
Some interesting news regarding this topic - International Cup?
Thanks.
Some interesting news regarding this topic - International Cup?
You keep saying 'small countries can sit in top division and train youths'
This is not only false, but a meaningless statement.
Firstly, we know that 'top division' means nothing. Salary and spectators are not equal between all top divisions. This point would make sense if income was the same between all top divisions.
You too can easily just sit in a division of equal rating earning the same amount in sponsorship as the top division in a small country. It's just that may be division 3 in poland, or division 4.
If you are talking about very small countries, then yeah, you may be able to be successful with youths, but 8-10 of your competition are bots, severely lowering league prestige and income from both sponsorship and matches.
You and a number of others from large nations who don't want to admit you have an advantage, seem to consistently ignore the difference between an independent variable and dependant variable.
In this game you need consistent money to make money.
Large nations have this advantage because they are surrounded by older users and more divisions, which reduces the impact that bots have on divisions. The independent variable is the money coming in from sponsors and gate receipts. The dependent variable is team rating.
You can supplement the sponsorship/gate receipts with training, but it's the sponsorship/gate receipts, that give you the base to be able to invest, and then be able to maintain later on.
We have looked at a number of top train-sell-div1 poland etc teams before and it is constantly the same for 90+%, the profit from sales, not including any listing fees that don't end in a sale (ie would actually be less profit from sales), do not even come close to the amount earned in sponsorship/gate receipts over the long term, which means training income, whilst not meaning nothing, is completely overrated in terms of its importance.
Will good training put you ahead? Of course, it's needed to succeed within your country where everyone has an equal advantage/disadvantage in the base income, but it is not the big factor that separates nations, and this is the advantage large nations have.
Large nations also have the advantage of being able to try and make their team stronger and advancing to the next level, where they then get paid more as well.
Small nations do not, and are stuck on relying on others to grow.
I would love to be able to try and promote, bounce a level go up 43 750 $ in sponsorship and be able to have more than a couple of 625 000 $ gate receipts, but I cannot. Instead I go the other way, bots, new teams, or teams that spend every 2nd season in div II come up, with their tiny fanclub member sizes, and slowly erode my own fanclub.
Anyone from a large nation can drop to a league of the same strength as a small nation and train younger players, but in this case, you will still take home more than the small country because of more consistent sponsorship/gate receipts.
Instead of trying to not accept the advantage you have in a large country, you should be doing what I have been doing for a long time and advocating for change. If you truly believe a small country has an advantage, advocate for change.
Advocate for a single league structure which has all nations in sokker competing. Or advocate for all division 1 teams to earn the same income - this will make all division 1 teams have 70-80+ ratings and noone will be able to 'sit and train youths in the top league'. Advocate for combining of nations so that each league structure has a similar number of teams. Advocate for the league prestige in the international cup to be the only thing that affects sponsorship. Advocate for the splitting of Poland into 20 different leagues so that you have more of a chance of taking out titles more regularly. Or come up with a new idea that puts everyone in sokker on a level playing field, where your ability to succeed in this game, and to be able to gain money, are not impacted by those around you.
Instead of complaining, come up with ideas. By complaining, by trying to deflect, by trying to argue against a point that is so obvious, you are looking like someone who knows they have an advantage and doesn't want to lose it.
I have never advocated for a plan to advantage small nations, I have only ever advocated ideas that put everyone on an equal level to succeed. But the dev team, who all happen to be from large nations, will never understand the disadvantage, just like you don't, so they only way this improves is by people, admins, polish people, those who the devs may actually talk to, to take country out of it, and just look at numbers.
This is not only false, but a meaningless statement.
Firstly, we know that 'top division' means nothing. Salary and spectators are not equal between all top divisions. This point would make sense if income was the same between all top divisions.
You too can easily just sit in a division of equal rating earning the same amount in sponsorship as the top division in a small country. It's just that may be division 3 in poland, or division 4.
If you are talking about very small countries, then yeah, you may be able to be successful with youths, but 8-10 of your competition are bots, severely lowering league prestige and income from both sponsorship and matches.
You and a number of others from large nations who don't want to admit you have an advantage, seem to consistently ignore the difference between an independent variable and dependant variable.
In this game you need consistent money to make money.
Large nations have this advantage because they are surrounded by older users and more divisions, which reduces the impact that bots have on divisions. The independent variable is the money coming in from sponsors and gate receipts. The dependent variable is team rating.
You can supplement the sponsorship/gate receipts with training, but it's the sponsorship/gate receipts, that give you the base to be able to invest, and then be able to maintain later on.
We have looked at a number of top train-sell-div1 poland etc teams before and it is constantly the same for 90+%, the profit from sales, not including any listing fees that don't end in a sale (ie would actually be less profit from sales), do not even come close to the amount earned in sponsorship/gate receipts over the long term, which means training income, whilst not meaning nothing, is completely overrated in terms of its importance.
Will good training put you ahead? Of course, it's needed to succeed within your country where everyone has an equal advantage/disadvantage in the base income, but it is not the big factor that separates nations, and this is the advantage large nations have.
Large nations also have the advantage of being able to try and make their team stronger and advancing to the next level, where they then get paid more as well.
Small nations do not, and are stuck on relying on others to grow.
I would love to be able to try and promote, bounce a level go up 43 750 $ in sponsorship and be able to have more than a couple of 625 000 $ gate receipts, but I cannot. Instead I go the other way, bots, new teams, or teams that spend every 2nd season in div II come up, with their tiny fanclub member sizes, and slowly erode my own fanclub.
Anyone from a large nation can drop to a league of the same strength as a small nation and train younger players, but in this case, you will still take home more than the small country because of more consistent sponsorship/gate receipts.
Instead of trying to not accept the advantage you have in a large country, you should be doing what I have been doing for a long time and advocating for change. If you truly believe a small country has an advantage, advocate for change.
Advocate for a single league structure which has all nations in sokker competing. Or advocate for all division 1 teams to earn the same income - this will make all division 1 teams have 70-80+ ratings and noone will be able to 'sit and train youths in the top league'. Advocate for combining of nations so that each league structure has a similar number of teams. Advocate for the league prestige in the international cup to be the only thing that affects sponsorship. Advocate for the splitting of Poland into 20 different leagues so that you have more of a chance of taking out titles more regularly. Or come up with a new idea that puts everyone in sokker on a level playing field, where your ability to succeed in this game, and to be able to gain money, are not impacted by those around you.
Instead of complaining, come up with ideas. By complaining, by trying to deflect, by trying to argue against a point that is so obvious, you are looking like someone who knows they have an advantage and doesn't want to lose it.
I have never advocated for a plan to advantage small nations, I have only ever advocated ideas that put everyone on an equal level to succeed. But the dev team, who all happen to be from large nations, will never understand the disadvantage, just like you don't, so they only way this improves is by people, admins, polish people, those who the devs may actually talk to, to take country out of it, and just look at numbers.
You keep saying 'small countries can sit in top division and train youths'
This is not only false, but a meaningless statement.
Firstly, we know that 'top division' means nothing. Salary and spectators are not equal between all top divisions. This point would make sense if income was the same between all top divisions.
It is not false nor meaningless because people have already done that. They created 80+ teams in small countries (Luxemburg, Latvia) and trained young players while also winning the league.
most of Australian A-League has a rating lower than 65, almost half of league plays for less than 60.
72.6 Chelsea.F.C
70.6 Achmids Soul
70.0 Cool Runnings
66.4 CHILE_FC
64.1 Ginger Nuts
63.0 The Comets
60.4 cisco spurs
58.7 Cruising Kings
58.5 Stamford Rangers
58.3 Hajduk Hobart
55.4 Melbourne Mongrels
46.4 Team Moose Power
if you create a strong team, you can easily have a 80 rating A-team that will crush everyone else in league, while using youths trained for profit in friendly (90min) + 22 minutes in league - you bring on 5 youths in each game. That's 96% training for 10 slots and winning the league and having a top team capable of beating everyone in International Cup.
What is "false" or "meaningless" in this? These are facts.
If others also did that and you had X or XX Strongs teams then it would be a different story, at the same time you would also have higher sponsors etc. then.
You too can easily just sit in a division of equal rating earning the same amount in sponsorship as the top division in a small country. It's just that may be division 3 in poland, or division 4
yes I could and I did that (3rd/4th) but then after the changes I did the math and decided that it's more profitable for me to concentrate on easier training & make less from sponsors/tickets in lower league (5th) and concentrate on training and cutting down my expenses. I don't see your point here.
main problem here is that due to new fan expectations model and my bank account fans expect me to win every league and if I don't do that they hate me, so I basically have 0-10% fan mood all the time and it makes zero sense for me to try and stay up in higher leagues.
You and a number of others from large nations who don't want to admit you have an advantage, seem to consistently ignore the difference between an independent variable and dependant variable.
In this game you need consistent money to make money.
Large nations have this advantage because they are surrounded by older users and more divisions, which reduces the impact that bots have on divisions. The independent variable is the money coming in from sponsors and gate receipts. The dependent variable is team rating.
I already asked you, so I will ask again, can you please explain to me how is it possible that it made financially more sense to me to go DOWN where I get much LESS money form sponsors/tickets and thanks to that I was able to make 20m euro+ profit, while I was losing "weekly/seasonal" money (without transfers)?
You can supplement the sponsorship/gate receipts with training, but it's the sponsorship/gate receipts, that give you the base to be able to invest, and then be able to maintain later on.
wrong, training can give you much more than sponsorship/tickets. I had 5m euro total season income last season, I made 10m euro profit on ONE player out of 10 slots. proper training is far more beneficial than sponsors/tickets.
I would love to be able to try and promote, bounce a level go up 175 000 zł in sponsorship and be able to have more than a couple of 2 500 000 zł gate receipts, but I cannot. Instead I go the other way, bots, new teams, or teams that spend every 2nd season in div II come up, with their tiny fanclub member sizes, and slowly erode my own fanclub.
and that's why you should do what the guys in Latvia and Luxemburg did. you can train youths (16-17) in your league, concentrate for x seasons on making profit, then buy high quality youths, train them so they are 80+ rank team, have a lot of money saved up in your bank, easily win the league while also training youths for 90 in friendly + 22 in league, thus playing for trophies internationally and still making money on training locally while staying at top league and winning trophies.
you can do all that and you can't say that you can't because people already did it. and now it's even much easier with 2 leagues games weekly + IntCup + possibility to train different skills to different players which was before not possible and you had to train everyone in same skill
Instead of complaining, come up with ideas. By complaining, by trying to deflect, by trying to argue against a point that is so obvious, you are looking like someone who knows they have an advantage and doesn't want to lose it.
I'm not the one complaining, I'm actually telling you what you can do and how you can do it, you just ignore it because it's easier to say that you get too little from tickets to compete instead of actually trying to do something that requires time and effort. You think people create strong teams because they play in strong leagues, but that's simply wrong. Those strong teams are created entirely in the lower leagues, with low league incomes, based on training & training profits to create enough resources.
With the new International Cup you would even get top ticket money regularly with a strong team, so another possible boost, but first you would have to spend seasons on training for profit and gathering resources.
(edited)
This is not only false, but a meaningless statement.
Firstly, we know that 'top division' means nothing. Salary and spectators are not equal between all top divisions. This point would make sense if income was the same between all top divisions.
It is not false nor meaningless because people have already done that. They created 80+ teams in small countries (Luxemburg, Latvia) and trained young players while also winning the league.
most of Australian A-League has a rating lower than 65, almost half of league plays for less than 60.
72.6 Chelsea.F.C
70.6 Achmids Soul
70.0 Cool Runnings
66.4 CHILE_FC
64.1 Ginger Nuts
63.0 The Comets
60.4 cisco spurs
58.7 Cruising Kings
58.5 Stamford Rangers
58.3 Hajduk Hobart
55.4 Melbourne Mongrels
46.4 Team Moose Power
if you create a strong team, you can easily have a 80 rating A-team that will crush everyone else in league, while using youths trained for profit in friendly (90min) + 22 minutes in league - you bring on 5 youths in each game. That's 96% training for 10 slots and winning the league and having a top team capable of beating everyone in International Cup.
What is "false" or "meaningless" in this? These are facts.
If others also did that and you had X or XX Strongs teams then it would be a different story, at the same time you would also have higher sponsors etc. then.
You too can easily just sit in a division of equal rating earning the same amount in sponsorship as the top division in a small country. It's just that may be division 3 in poland, or division 4
yes I could and I did that (3rd/4th) but then after the changes I did the math and decided that it's more profitable for me to concentrate on easier training & make less from sponsors/tickets in lower league (5th) and concentrate on training and cutting down my expenses. I don't see your point here.
main problem here is that due to new fan expectations model and my bank account fans expect me to win every league and if I don't do that they hate me, so I basically have 0-10% fan mood all the time and it makes zero sense for me to try and stay up in higher leagues.
You and a number of others from large nations who don't want to admit you have an advantage, seem to consistently ignore the difference between an independent variable and dependant variable.
In this game you need consistent money to make money.
Large nations have this advantage because they are surrounded by older users and more divisions, which reduces the impact that bots have on divisions. The independent variable is the money coming in from sponsors and gate receipts. The dependent variable is team rating.
I already asked you, so I will ask again, can you please explain to me how is it possible that it made financially more sense to me to go DOWN where I get much LESS money form sponsors/tickets and thanks to that I was able to make 20m euro+ profit, while I was losing "weekly/seasonal" money (without transfers)?
You can supplement the sponsorship/gate receipts with training, but it's the sponsorship/gate receipts, that give you the base to be able to invest, and then be able to maintain later on.
wrong, training can give you much more than sponsorship/tickets. I had 5m euro total season income last season, I made 10m euro profit on ONE player out of 10 slots. proper training is far more beneficial than sponsors/tickets.
I would love to be able to try and promote, bounce a level go up 175 000 zł in sponsorship and be able to have more than a couple of 2 500 000 zł gate receipts, but I cannot. Instead I go the other way, bots, new teams, or teams that spend every 2nd season in div II come up, with their tiny fanclub member sizes, and slowly erode my own fanclub.
and that's why you should do what the guys in Latvia and Luxemburg did. you can train youths (16-17) in your league, concentrate for x seasons on making profit, then buy high quality youths, train them so they are 80+ rank team, have a lot of money saved up in your bank, easily win the league while also training youths for 90 in friendly + 22 in league, thus playing for trophies internationally and still making money on training locally while staying at top league and winning trophies.
you can do all that and you can't say that you can't because people already did it. and now it's even much easier with 2 leagues games weekly + IntCup + possibility to train different skills to different players which was before not possible and you had to train everyone in same skill
Instead of complaining, come up with ideas. By complaining, by trying to deflect, by trying to argue against a point that is so obvious, you are looking like someone who knows they have an advantage and doesn't want to lose it.
I'm not the one complaining, I'm actually telling you what you can do and how you can do it, you just ignore it because it's easier to say that you get too little from tickets to compete instead of actually trying to do something that requires time and effort. You think people create strong teams because they play in strong leagues, but that's simply wrong. Those strong teams are created entirely in the lower leagues, with low league incomes, based on training & training profits to create enough resources.
With the new International Cup you would even get top ticket money regularly with a strong team, so another possible boost, but first you would have to spend seasons on training for profit and gathering resources.
(edited)
This is my exact income data:
Last season income total: 5 493 110 $
Last season profit/loss: -1 620 666 $
So I made nice loss last season and that also happened before, will happen this season and will happen for next couple of seasons.
Yet my account reached over 375 000 000 $ while I was regularly making weekly / seasonal huge losses. How is that possible since "sponsors and tickets are the base for investing" and training "can only supplement that"? :)
Do you think Achmid that I made that money in top levels of Polish leagues? Because I can tell you that after leaving Ekstraklasa last time and selling every player from the team I had maybe 10% of what I have now :-)
(edited)
Last season income total: 5 493 110 $
Last season profit/loss: -1 620 666 $
So I made nice loss last season and that also happened before, will happen this season and will happen for next couple of seasons.
Yet my account reached over 375 000 000 $ while I was regularly making weekly / seasonal huge losses. How is that possible since "sponsors and tickets are the base for investing" and training "can only supplement that"? :)
Do you think Achmid that I made that money in top levels of Polish leagues? Because I can tell you that after leaving Ekstraklasa last time and selling every player from the team I had maybe 10% of what I have now :-)
(edited)
I will show you some profits so you can compare the "supplement money from training" to the "base for investing money from tickets/sponsors"
As I've already shown, my Total income last season was 5 493 110 $
Now a couple of transfers from last seasons and the profits from them. Pure, actual profits, after taxes and deducting how much I paid beforehand for them.
Zajec: 4 000 000 $ in 2 months
Czwartek: 2 500 000 $ in 2 months
Rathnau: 7 500 000 $ in 4 months
Zenier: 9 250 000 $ in 4 months
Doreste: 5 000 000 $ in 7 months
Feyyaz: 5 000 000 $ in 7 months
Feltreni: 6 250 000 $ in 8 months
Wałdoch: 7 000 000 $ in 5 months
Kyjovsky: 7 250 000 $ in 4 months
and so on.
1 slot out of 10 every season can give me more than I get from tickets/sponsors etc during whole season, so please don't tell me, that training is a "supplement".
there are people who regularly make over 25 000 000 $ profit every season. they don't care about tickets and sponsors.
that's how you make money in this game, that's how you create base/foundations for a top team, that's how you create financial reserve for playing at top level (where in big countries you can't train and you only lose money every week, every season). not sponsor or ticket money. training.
(edited)
As I've already shown, my Total income last season was 5 493 110 $
Now a couple of transfers from last seasons and the profits from them. Pure, actual profits, after taxes and deducting how much I paid beforehand for them.
Zajec: 4 000 000 $ in 2 months
Czwartek: 2 500 000 $ in 2 months
Rathnau: 7 500 000 $ in 4 months
Zenier: 9 250 000 $ in 4 months
Doreste: 5 000 000 $ in 7 months
Feyyaz: 5 000 000 $ in 7 months
Feltreni: 6 250 000 $ in 8 months
Wałdoch: 7 000 000 $ in 5 months
Kyjovsky: 7 250 000 $ in 4 months
and so on.
1 slot out of 10 every season can give me more than I get from tickets/sponsors etc during whole season, so please don't tell me, that training is a "supplement".
there are people who regularly make over 25 000 000 $ profit every season. they don't care about tickets and sponsors.
that's how you make money in this game, that's how you create base/foundations for a top team, that's how you create financial reserve for playing at top level (where in big countries you can't train and you only lose money every week, every season). not sponsor or ticket money. training.
(edited)
Firstly, there is no incentive to have 80+ rating in my league, as you have shown, it is not needed, but it also isn't financially viable.
The cost of purchasing those players, the salaries and then these youths you think can somehow still compete, is not viable in a small nation, which is something you have failed to understand.
Unless you have top players in the game (who are then exponentially more expensive), you aren't winning this league with young players. And if you buy old players, their market value drops quick, meaning you are spending 500-600k euro per season, per player for the team. Again, not financially viable with the lower incomes of small countries.
Next point.
Team strength does not equate to increase revenue. Fanclub members does. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
If everyone in division 1 poland, played with teams who rated 40, they would still be earning the same about of money as they are now. So you are completely incorrect in saying if X or XX did this, you would have higher sponsors.
Next
You are making my point, it is viable sitting in division 5 poland because of the stability advantages that large nations have. Come do that in div 2 Australia.
I have already in the past taken many of the long term, huge money maker teams on the TM, taking their total profit, divided by their time in the game, and shown the weekly income from this, and it was much less than their sponsorship, let alone gate income as well. I showed this with many teams in a different thread
Next
You use the exact same examples, Luxembourg, all the time. This occurred many years ago and the team went bankrupt because they didn't have that baseline income coming in. They literally used all their teams finances to have a flash in the pan and disappear. If it were that simple, you wouldn't need to keep giving the same example all the time, and it would be recent examples, not many years old ones.
Next
Now I will give you credit where it is due, you find a way, through being very active on many forums, to sell players at prearranged prices that are much higher than market value, regularly, and have done so for a very long time. This does not make your examples 'normal' ones that are accessible to the majority of players. Just like me being able to take Australia u21 team to the top 8 in the world cup, whilst beating big teams like Turkey, normal.
But let's use your team as an example. You have made 399 375 000 $ on the TM.
But this doesn't include tax. For a lot of that time, there was a 4% tax and as you sell mainly young players with short term day trading, you were charged an additional 5% tax (you are now charged more), so lose approx 9% (let's say 10% for ease) that isn't included in the profit/loss. This also doesn't include 2.5% listing fees for unsold players.
This brings total profit down to approximately 359 375 000 $.
But you currently only rate 37.
To bring you to my current team level, and thus the top of A-league, would cost you maybe, 6 250 000 $ per player, and let's say you will have zero injuries so only need 11 players.
This means your profit, whilst having a decent team, is approximately 290 625 000 $
You have been in the game 1083 weeks
So dividing your profit by the time you have been in the game, equates to 268 125 $ per week added to your regular income, and that is with me being very generous not including added taxes that have been in place for a while now, listing fees and the fact we have already stated, you are not the normal, you are one of the more talented (some may say predatory selling for more than they are worth), transfer market users.
Now over that time, I can guarantee that long term, you have been earning more than 268 125 $ in sponsorship and gate takings per week. Even in your 'lowly division 5', you brought in last season approximately 422 500 $ per week, which is 50% more than your long term transfer market profit.
So this is why sponsorship and gate taking parity is so important between countries and why Poland (or any large nation) has an advantage.
The transfer market helps, but long term it is not where the most of the teams money comes from. Most of the teams money comes from Sponsorship and Gate receipts.
The cost of purchasing those players, the salaries and then these youths you think can somehow still compete, is not viable in a small nation, which is something you have failed to understand.
Unless you have top players in the game (who are then exponentially more expensive), you aren't winning this league with young players. And if you buy old players, their market value drops quick, meaning you are spending 500-600k euro per season, per player for the team. Again, not financially viable with the lower incomes of small countries.
Next point.
Team strength does not equate to increase revenue. Fanclub members does. THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
If everyone in division 1 poland, played with teams who rated 40, they would still be earning the same about of money as they are now. So you are completely incorrect in saying if X or XX did this, you would have higher sponsors.
Next
You are making my point, it is viable sitting in division 5 poland because of the stability advantages that large nations have. Come do that in div 2 Australia.
I have already in the past taken many of the long term, huge money maker teams on the TM, taking their total profit, divided by their time in the game, and shown the weekly income from this, and it was much less than their sponsorship, let alone gate income as well. I showed this with many teams in a different thread
Next
You use the exact same examples, Luxembourg, all the time. This occurred many years ago and the team went bankrupt because they didn't have that baseline income coming in. They literally used all their teams finances to have a flash in the pan and disappear. If it were that simple, you wouldn't need to keep giving the same example all the time, and it would be recent examples, not many years old ones.
Next
Now I will give you credit where it is due, you find a way, through being very active on many forums, to sell players at prearranged prices that are much higher than market value, regularly, and have done so for a very long time. This does not make your examples 'normal' ones that are accessible to the majority of players. Just like me being able to take Australia u21 team to the top 8 in the world cup, whilst beating big teams like Turkey, normal.
But let's use your team as an example. You have made 399 375 000 $ on the TM.
But this doesn't include tax. For a lot of that time, there was a 4% tax and as you sell mainly young players with short term day trading, you were charged an additional 5% tax (you are now charged more), so lose approx 9% (let's say 10% for ease) that isn't included in the profit/loss. This also doesn't include 2.5% listing fees for unsold players.
This brings total profit down to approximately 359 375 000 $.
But you currently only rate 37.
To bring you to my current team level, and thus the top of A-league, would cost you maybe, 6 250 000 $ per player, and let's say you will have zero injuries so only need 11 players.
This means your profit, whilst having a decent team, is approximately 290 625 000 $
You have been in the game 1083 weeks
So dividing your profit by the time you have been in the game, equates to 268 125 $ per week added to your regular income, and that is with me being very generous not including added taxes that have been in place for a while now, listing fees and the fact we have already stated, you are not the normal, you are one of the more talented (some may say predatory selling for more than they are worth), transfer market users.
Now over that time, I can guarantee that long term, you have been earning more than 268 125 $ in sponsorship and gate takings per week. Even in your 'lowly division 5', you brought in last season approximately 422 500 $ per week, which is 50% more than your long term transfer market profit.
So this is why sponsorship and gate taking parity is so important between countries and why Poland (or any large nation) has an advantage.
The transfer market helps, but long term it is not where the most of the teams money comes from. Most of the teams money comes from Sponsorship and Gate receipts.
Well i think what borkoos is tryng to say is that the most efficient way to build up a +80 team is with a lot of seasons of training with out caring of tickets/sponsors...
And i think there he is right...
You can farm 25/30m per season in any country/league cause as he said, the sponsors and tickets doesnt matter...
Ofc after that period of farming and once you reach the 80 mark team, in poland you will have a lot more of passive income with tickets/sponsors that in Australia...
But you can counter that by training some young in cup/league, than in poland you cant... so i think both postures are right but are about different topics
And i think there he is right...
You can farm 25/30m per season in any country/league cause as he said, the sponsors and tickets doesnt matter...
Ofc after that period of farming and once you reach the 80 mark team, in poland you will have a lot more of passive income with tickets/sponsors that in Australia...
But you can counter that by training some young in cup/league, than in poland you cant... so i think both postures are right but are about different topics
The fact remains, our view is going to be distorted because we can’t make 25/30m a season unless we sacrifice sleep. The transfer market is not accessible in order to make the good/cheap pick ups when we need it. Ok there may be 1-2 but we definitely don’t have the flexibility Europe has. Factor in you’re getting let’s say 1-1.5m more per week (really need actual numbers here mind you) but if you were getting that from tickets/sponsorship etc that’s what 13 weeks of that so there’s your 13-20m back already. It’s not nothing. Transfers are bigger cash injections over a longer period of time with some risk to it, revenue like sponsors/gate receipts is smaller but you get it more frequently.
Even if we take that back to say 10m a season if we’re being super cautious here we’re saying that every 3 seasons in order to be on parity we need to train an extra set of 25-30m to everyone else.
The only way either side is going to see the other is for actual numbers of clubs doing the same thing in different economies and restrictions.
Edit: I’m open to being wrong here, I just know that playing the same way, I’d be better off in a country with more competition. I’ve said before the solution here is for merged leagues. How you do that and working through all the barriers etc is stuff that can still be worked through but that would solve all this x is better, y is better. We’d be on an as even playing field as possible and there would be no need for “excuses” of you get more money in x etc. That’s the end solution to end this entire issue from both sides of the fence. Those wanting more money and those wanting more training.
(edited)
Even if we take that back to say 10m a season if we’re being super cautious here we’re saying that every 3 seasons in order to be on parity we need to train an extra set of 25-30m to everyone else.
The only way either side is going to see the other is for actual numbers of clubs doing the same thing in different economies and restrictions.
Edit: I’m open to being wrong here, I just know that playing the same way, I’d be better off in a country with more competition. I’ve said before the solution here is for merged leagues. How you do that and working through all the barriers etc is stuff that can still be worked through but that would solve all this x is better, y is better. We’d be on an as even playing field as possible and there would be no need for “excuses” of you get more money in x etc. That’s the end solution to end this entire issue from both sides of the fence. Those wanting more money and those wanting more training.
(edited)
Wow look at that, you have to drop to the slums in div 5 Poland, where your income from sources other than transfers is 'only' $8.7M AUD (this includes cup match income which is a good chunk).
Come to div 2 Australia. Mine was $5.6M AUD.
Some of those players you listed you bought for more than my entire season income. No wonder you make profit, if you can afford the best juniors, and train them, they will only go up in value.
Not everyone in a small nation can be in the first division, so someone will have to drop to division 2 where the bots just take take take and they are stuck getting such low money.
If everyone in Australia pushed like you said, it still wouldn't end up with more income as the bots don't care how strong you are. They just drop the league prestige meaning we have to earn even more on the transfer market just to break even with a larger country. And unlike sponsorship, you have to work to buy the right juniors, be up at the right time in the middle of the night, compete with teams that have been around since 2005 and somehow have the money even with such low income coming in from the game.
Just because you speak a lot, and try to be the loudest in the room, in every single room, in all of sokker, still doesn't make you right. Which is probably why every 3rd or 4th post here is yours, trying to convince others that you must be right.
Come to div 2 Australia. Mine was $5.6M AUD.
Some of those players you listed you bought for more than my entire season income. No wonder you make profit, if you can afford the best juniors, and train them, they will only go up in value.
Not everyone in a small nation can be in the first division, so someone will have to drop to division 2 where the bots just take take take and they are stuck getting such low money.
If everyone in Australia pushed like you said, it still wouldn't end up with more income as the bots don't care how strong you are. They just drop the league prestige meaning we have to earn even more on the transfer market just to break even with a larger country. And unlike sponsorship, you have to work to buy the right juniors, be up at the right time in the middle of the night, compete with teams that have been around since 2005 and somehow have the money even with such low income coming in from the game.
Just because you speak a lot, and try to be the loudest in the room, in every single room, in all of sokker, still doesn't make you right. Which is probably why every 3rd or 4th post here is yours, trying to convince others that you must be right.
Wow look at that, you have to drop to the slums in div 5 Poland, where your income from sources other than transfers is 'only' $8.7M AUD (this includes cup match income which is a good chunk).
Come to div 2 Australia. Mine was $5.6M AUD.
Because you play in a terrible league full of bots that could be beaten by a team made out of trained youths. you should be playing in Div 1, not Div 2. You should not be playing for less than 50 after 5 years of playing the game.
And again, I don't care for that money, I can make 2, 3, 4, 5 times that in profit from training every season.
Some of those players you listed you bought for more than my entire season income. No wonder you make profit, if you can afford the best juniors, and train them, they will only go up in value.
Those were the players bought "for myself", not for future profit. Best profit is made on low value buys, because there is much less risk if the talent is bad/average. If you buy a young player for 5m euro there is a very small margin for profit and it's in general harder to sell of 10m euro than for 5m euro because more teams have 5m euro to spend than 10m euro.
Those "some" that mentioned were not the best profits even on the list, you could easily afford Zenier, Rathnau, Kyjovsky etc. when I bought them.
If everyone in Australia pushed like you said
that's a pointless statement because nobody pushes like I said and that's why this strategy would be so successful.
strategies are adapted to the current conditions.
what's the point in discussing a "what if"? I'm discussing the here and now.
you can have make a lot of money in every country, you can make a 80+ team in every country, in Australia you can then play a 80+ team and win trophies while also training youths for profit to catch up with countries that make more from tickets/sponsors (but can't train for profit).
Just because you speak a lot, and try to be the loudest in the room, in every single room, in all of sokker, still doesn't make you right. Which is probably why every 3rd or 4th post here is yours, trying to convince others that you must be right.
I am right, because what I say is based on facts - on what other people did in different countries and what I did over the years. I played at top level, I trained at top level, I made money on top level. But I'm sure you're the one who is right and nobody can make a strong team in Australia, even though people already made strong teams in smaller countries and even now there are stronger teams in countries like Albania, which has 2 users - and much lower income than your Div 1 teams.
Come to div 2 Australia. Mine was $5.6M AUD.
Because you play in a terrible league full of bots that could be beaten by a team made out of trained youths. you should be playing in Div 1, not Div 2. You should not be playing for less than 50 after 5 years of playing the game.
And again, I don't care for that money, I can make 2, 3, 4, 5 times that in profit from training every season.
Some of those players you listed you bought for more than my entire season income. No wonder you make profit, if you can afford the best juniors, and train them, they will only go up in value.
Those were the players bought "for myself", not for future profit. Best profit is made on low value buys, because there is much less risk if the talent is bad/average. If you buy a young player for 5m euro there is a very small margin for profit and it's in general harder to sell of 10m euro than for 5m euro because more teams have 5m euro to spend than 10m euro.
Those "some" that mentioned were not the best profits even on the list, you could easily afford Zenier, Rathnau, Kyjovsky etc. when I bought them.
If everyone in Australia pushed like you said
that's a pointless statement because nobody pushes like I said and that's why this strategy would be so successful.
strategies are adapted to the current conditions.
what's the point in discussing a "what if"? I'm discussing the here and now.
you can have make a lot of money in every country, you can make a 80+ team in every country, in Australia you can then play a 80+ team and win trophies while also training youths for profit to catch up with countries that make more from tickets/sponsors (but can't train for profit).
Just because you speak a lot, and try to be the loudest in the room, in every single room, in all of sokker, still doesn't make you right. Which is probably why every 3rd or 4th post here is yours, trying to convince others that you must be right.
I am right, because what I say is based on facts - on what other people did in different countries and what I did over the years. I played at top level, I trained at top level, I made money on top level. But I'm sure you're the one who is right and nobody can make a strong team in Australia, even though people already made strong teams in smaller countries and even now there are stronger teams in countries like Albania, which has 2 users - and much lower income than your Div 1 teams.
Merged leagues of small countries is the way to go, I agree with you. Should have been made a long time ago.
As for timezones - yeah, those can be an issue, still the time to buy youths is 99% of the time during weekend. I sometimes bought players at 6 in the morning or 2 in the night, because that's when they were listed. Often I couldn't get them because they were listed too early or too late.
I agree that it might be harder but that doesn't make it impossible. The thing is that if you buy for training profit you don't buy "who you want when you want", you buy players that go below their market value... and that's actually usually happening either in the very early or very late hours, so from what I understand it might actually be your timezone (I assume you're from Eastern part of Australia so ~+10hours from SK time)
As for timezones - yeah, those can be an issue, still the time to buy youths is 99% of the time during weekend. I sometimes bought players at 6 in the morning or 2 in the night, because that's when they were listed. Often I couldn't get them because they were listed too early or too late.
I agree that it might be harder but that doesn't make it impossible. The thing is that if you buy for training profit you don't buy "who you want when you want", you buy players that go below their market value... and that's actually usually happening either in the very early or very late hours, so from what I understand it might actually be your timezone (I assume you're from Eastern part of Australia so ~+10hours from SK time)
Maybe it's better that others have a different opinion than you... will be fewer better/richer clubs .
How long can you explain that something is possible? :) Let's them think it's impossible
Let's back to the topic - International Cup.
How long can you explain that something is possible? :) Let's them think it's impossible
Let's back to the topic - International Cup.