Subject: Is European Union good or bad thing?

"You speak like my grandfather that thinks that we have to be thankful forever with USA... sorry but the war is finished 60 years ago... we have been thankful enough..."

Europe should be red without others 40 years of participation USA in European affairs. Their stabilization made conditions to create EU. I have not some Munich complex to avoid trust in EU democracies, its more about fact that USA is strongest democratic nation in the world. The american doctrines and governments are changing, some are bad, some are good but definately the mentioned previous fact is stable.

Yes. NATO is common euro-american alliance. Its not american, headquarters is in Bruxelles. Iraqi war was without support of some NATO members.

well i know that, but does nato means what about eu?

That European army is not useful.

and what more in not useful about eu?
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That European army is not useful.


The fact that it is a european army is useful in itself. It is a great achievement from an historical point of view. This is the longest era of peace in central europe ever, and the EU is an important pier for the stabilty of the european structure.
And, as very rarely one army fights itself, it is very important to build an european army, and, once that it is working and powerful, decrease the national armies.

It's actually quite useful for defending the interests of the EU countries. Keep in mind that not all of the EU countries are members of NATO (ie. Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland) - so it's very much in the interest of the EU to have a joint army. Furthermore UN is handing over quite a few peace-keeping assignments to the EU, so a joint EU army definitely has a raison d'être. If just Denmark would join it...

ichbins and Calem:
No we are different countries. For example controversial "Humanitarian" bombing of Serbia. Thats not actually something which want all countries, for example Sweden should not be part of it but will have to. Cooperation of national armies is fine.
Or we have alternative about European army, when all will have to agree with action, deciding if their soldiers will leave european divisions. Thats uneffective.
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Its their decision, if they dont want be part of NATO. Anyway they cooperate with it and attack on them should be also matter of not only NATO but whole democratic world.

So should I have an own army if my government wants another foreign policy than I want? Shall the Moravia-people have their own army if the czech majority wants another policy than them?

Sorry, that´s nonsense. The bigger the community, the better, until one community will include the whole world one day, making it a peaceful place.
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About it is whole thread. If you want Europan state its nonsense have not army. If you want your country its nonsense make participation in something what Germans dont want. I dont want European state. We have entered to union.
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"Sorry, that´s nonsense. The bigger the community, the better, until one community will include the whole world one day, making it a peaceful place."

Lol. It reminds me Communist manifesto.

I agree with you and therefore I believe we're not ready to have a big joint army yet.

We are talking too much, HIMO, about army...
I mean: be seriusly... Who cares about a solid army now adays...?
Which Country does we fear to attak us?
Does we fear Iran, China, or Russia to declare war against EU?

That's ridiculus! Even in the worst scenario of energetical resourse control, I can't image a war country vs country (with EU attacked)


The true EU importance is about economy.
Now there are no country lines from Portugal to Estonia, from Ireland to Cyprus...
How many EU cityzens are we? 500K?
I don't know the exact number, but surely we're a lot! And now we can compete against USA or Japan economy, and we can also face (in future) countries like China or India.

It's also their decision whether they're joining a joint EU army or not. So that argument doesn't seem valid.

@asevado: That's exactly my point - the EU army should focus on peace-keeping assignments. Denmark who's currently not a part of the EU army cannot be a part of the peace-keeping assignments handed over to the EU despite of the majority of Danes wanting to do so. If we cooperate with these tasks in a joint army we'll much easier be able to solve the problems.

"Sorry, that´s nonsense. The bigger the community, the better, until one community will include the whole world one day, making it a peaceful place."

Lol. It reminds me Communist manifesto.

Honestly, I would prefer a free democracy with a rather (not totally) free market.