Subject: Is European Union good or bad thing?

O_O
no more dutch coffee shops?

it's terrible: bad, bad UE..

:D MY money !!!

for your information: if i am not mistaken the dutch have to pay about € 350.- per capita each year for the Union.

just compare this to the amount you have to deliver to the state - thats probably half of your income. so you better relax ;)

and is funny to see that charles thinks there is a relation between bullfighting and smoking weed :O

Well you really can't make it up like that. The fact is that 80 % of the legislation in the Danish parliament derives from the EU - and I suppose the picture is similar to that in other European countries.

?

i only said that it might be a slight exaggeration to think that EU was very expensive to the people, and more specific that the new member states were not financed by the personal income of charles hill.

so i really do not understand what you are talking about. - i was not refering to the legislation of Danish parliament . do not know anything about that.

I can see that I misunderstood what Charlie wrote. I thought he was complaining over the fact that the EU had a huge impact on his money. :)

for your information: if i am not mistaken the dutch have to pay about € 350.- per capita each year for the Union.

just compare this to the amount you have to deliver to the state - thats probably half of your income. so you better relax ;)

I don't care I have to pay taxes to my country (you will never hear me complaining about that so absolutely irrelevant to begin about that!), but I do care that I have to pay for other countries that can handle their own problems like England, France, Italy and other countries that are rich enough. And if I can vote (for example) to help countries that needs money, like some eastern-European countries, I would accept it. But I can't ... I can't vote what will happen with my money in the EU I worked for. The moment we could vote for or against the EU I voted NO ofcourse :)

And you say it's 350 euro per person ... I think that is a lot of my money. I looked it up: The total EU EXPENSES of the Netherlands was 20 billion euro from 2002 to 2006. We can solve a lot of problems in my own country with that amount of money, and we still have enough problems over here that can be solved.

and is funny to see that charles thinks there is a relation between bullfighting and smoking weed :O

Don't know if you read things about the EU but your national 'sport' is (soon) protected by the EU but we have to use our Veto to keep other countries of our coffee shops ... The free will of people (what they want to use or don't want to use) is more of a problem to the EU than animal cruelty. So making that comparison isn't that strange ... (don't watch this movies if you are under age or can't handle it, but it's the reality of the EU >>) but not only bull'fighting' but also foie gras and ritual animal slaughter is protected by the EU. There isn't anything funny about that ............ This is funny, at least I don't see unhappy faces and animals/people being killed ;)

(btw. it's bullkilling and not bullfighting. You probaly think it's a fair fight :S Don't know your opinion about it but I think you defend it ...)
(edited)

reading your statement one could believe that payments too the the EU were so high that they would lead to a serious decrease of average personal income. so i just wanted to put things into the right proportion.

leaving Ireland aside all the other countries that you can consider to be rich have to pay more into the budget of the Union than they get out of it - this includes Great Britain and all the other countries you mentioned.

again i only want to put things right - i do not want to say that you have to be pro-EU because of my arguments. and i could share a prosition which rises the old claim of "no taxation without legislation."

pigs in farms are more cruelty treated than bulls in bullfighiting.
i dont like bullfighting ( only like bullrunning, where the bull dosent get hurt) , but i hope that you are vegetarian..cause if you eat meat, you are supporting animal cruelty to any animal who lives in farms..

PS:I do eat meat and smoke weed occasionally so im free to say what ive said


edit: by the way the word, if you transalte from spanish, is not bullfighting neither bullkilling
(edited)

I don't see any cruelty in raising an animal, tehn killing it and eating it :P

@Charles Hill: you said something interestign about controlling what is done with your money. I'd like to knowwether you would change your mind about EU if you, as Euro citizen, had the same control over EU budget that you, as Dutch citizen, have over Dutch budget.
Well, actually not only your opinion, anyone else opposing to EU please comment on this :P

I think that question can be framed in a more general setting: are you against delegating thing to EU, or do you just feel it is being doen asymmetrically - i.e., EU gets more power but not more direct control-?

and, in the youtube video you have posted, from minute 0:38 is not bullfighting or however you want to call, or do you see any torero or bull-circular place from 0:38?

Well the fact is that they are using extremly cruel methods to make animals gett more fat so they can win more money with it, and also mass production farms make food more cheap

now chiken is very cheap, on pasts centurys was a expensive food

Good, bad? Thats relative..
Its cruel, but it makes the food cheaper

I dotn know on south america, but i invite you ti visit any farm over there to see thats its cruel ( at least from the animal prespective :P )
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So whats your view now, after Lisbon treaty and economical crisis?

Sorry for necromancy:)

i read yesterday that japan and usa are the countries with less GPD % fall, and the countries with more %GPD fall are europeans ( i remember spain,ireland and germany ones of the first on the list) ,so better cooperation against crisis, as countries alone japan and usa eats us

GOOD !