Subject: Is European Union good or bad thing?

You're right. Those stupid people in Brussels decided we're not allowed to walk to our islands anymore:S

I don't like it, most of West-European companies go to Eastern-Europe where they have to pay much less for employees, people are losing jobs here but in Poland and other of those countries they "steal" our work.
Because you are lazy :P

I'm not against EU, but you can't tell I'm euroenthusiastic... I hate socialism, a don't believe in socialdemocracy, I love free market. In EU there are too many regulations, too high taxes etc.
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Mmm i think nowadays there is a mix on many countries of europe, like spain, france e and some northern countries..a mix of capitalism and comunism that more or less is working good

about the union, i thnk without union the life style ion europe would disappear in some generations..maybe other war

so in this aspect is good the union


about the constitution i think some things must be changed before aproving it
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I don't like it, most of West-European companies go to Eastern-Europe where they have to pay much less for employees, people are losing jobs here but in Poland and other of those countries they "steal" our work.

you're completely wrong way ;)
it has nothing to do with EU
or do you think China is in the eu, too?

I'm very positive to the EU, i even have a EU-flag on my wall(lol). That said, i don't really like the idea of a EU constitution. Different countries have different values and culture.

But i will take the union anytime instead of endless conflicts and war that seems to be Europes curse.
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2377695.ece

GOOD, of course!

United countries doesn´t mean common history or culture, that´s not the point of the union at all...

Having freedom of movement in europe is a good thing, as it allows people to find work, and countries to find workers.

The european union, however, is a bunch of self-important, unelected, and rather pointless spongers who waste money telling people how bendy their bananas should be.

Matthias Claerbout para ChuckNorris 2008-01-10 20:58:31
Our ministers are dumbasses, whoever voted for them should be hanged or something, actually, there are no good politicians in Belgium, they just want money money money


that sh*t is everywhere, in every single country...
politicians only want money and power... that's all

You keep saying that all companies go to Eastern Europe only for "low educated jobs". Well you are very very wrong. You can't say that companies like Nokia, Siemens, Ford, Renault, Pirelli, Michelin and much more others are looking for "low job education", especially when companies like this have in Eastern Europe important research centers, factories that are considered best of the world within the company, very expensive laboratory where yes top secret projects are developed and a lot of other important investments.
Most of this companies moves to "low cost" countries because here they find good workers, qualified and with small wages compared with Germany, UK, France etc. .
Of course there are cases like you said, companies coming only for "low educated jobs" but please don't generalize.
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I don't generalize. Those companies you're talking about: are you sure they are moving FROM a Western European country to Eastern Europe and that they don't just start with new locations because they're growing? That's a little difference. I've also been to much companies with locations in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, etc, but they were there because the expanded, none because they moved a part of their business to Eastern Europe unless they were re-organizing (so that they could use their Western-European laborers for other tasks).

I'm not generalizing, that really is how things happen.

I don't want to offend you, but be realistic. I've seen many lists about what universities are the best in doing research and I never found an east-European city in it. Those companies come to Eastern Europe because of the low wages, that's all. And I don't blame them for that.

Well, of course some of them are just expanding but some are moving important parts in these countries. For sure not all companies have same politic but I repeat, the main reason of moving/expanding is that for the same work (qualification, education, skills) they pay less. And it's normal to do like this.

I'm not offended and yes I'm realist. I didn't said that our universities are the best, this is another discussion - a long way until reaching this level. I agree with you, they come because of low wages but not only for "low educated jobs".

"I repeat, the main reason of moving/expanding is that for the same work (qualification, education, skills) they pay less. And it's normal to do like this."

That's what I said and that's immediately the reason jobs which require high education aren't being moved. Romania or Poland don't have much high educated people and that's why companies aren't moving. The biggest part of jobs which require a middle level education can't be moved as it are local jobs. Think about, for example, nurses. Jobs which require only a little or none education already have been moved or are mostly taken with youths or Eastern Europeans.

"I agree with you, they come because of low wages but not only for "low educated jobs"."

It works the other way round. High skilled Eastern Europeans are moving to Western Europe because of high salaries. They can make around 4-5 times as much money as they would be able to in their own country. This is called "brain drain" and prevents companies from moving to Eastern Europe. In Eastern Europe there are not enough skilled workers as those skilled workers moved to Western Europe.
This situation is starting to change in Poland which would mean a great boost for their economy. Romania isn't that far yet.
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PS. the "brain drain" phenomena is one of the worst effects of the European Union.
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