Subject: lost

so Desmond could not have ended on Island on his trip around the world because it wasn't there then

What wasn't there?

On the other hand, let me see if I follow you, is that cause of the bomb Widmore died or something, so Penny doesn't exists and there's no reason for Desmond to do the trip around the world with the sailsboat?

If so, my answer would be that the bomb wasn't an H-bomb cause otherwise all the losties would've been evaporated, I think the explosion only made the pocket of electromagnetic energy to blow(or the bomb never got to explode and the electromagnetic energy blew away on it's own), like that time when Desmond triggered the security key and made the hatch to blow away.

Btw, I like Desmond too, I hope he'll have an imporant role this season. ;)
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SPOILER

Ok, I will try to articulate more clearly: the cause of the bomb could be anything, but in episode 1 you see that the island is completely under water in this second "reality" that has been created in season 6. So even if Desmond did sail around the world, then if the island was already under water back then, then he would not have landed there and sailed over it.
The second possibility is exactly the one you told us. If there was any change to the chain Desmond-Penny-Widmore; so for example that penny never went to the monastary where she met Desmond or someone was killed etc, then he would also not sail around the world.

Hmm I am not sure if the bomb really did blow up or not. I mean they said something that it was a timejump right at this moment. It is possible, that the bomb never went off and that was just the timejump they experienced at exactly that moment and that something else they did back there did cause the island to be under water and thus plane 815 not to crash.

I am very curious how they will handle the paradoxon that has been created. You know that whole "if the plane never crashed on the island, then there is nobody there to go back in time to stop the plane from crashing down". But I get a headache if I spin further with those thoughts.

Desmond had this one thing in one episode, where he went back in time without any "tool" to change the past. I think that will be exactly the role he has to play in final season. IF there is a change in chain Desmond-Penny-Widmore he would lose his constant! (see that episode).
I think he will play an important part but not a big role (he is NOT on the posters :( ).
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I've got a question

At the end of Season 5, Richard says to Sun "I saw all your friends die"

Now think about this for a second. How could he know that? He's in the 2007, post Ajira reality where the bomb didn't go off and everything in the last 5 years happened? So how exactly are they supposed to have died? You'd think he'd know the difference between a bomb going off and a time flash

I don't think I'm making this clear and it' giving me a headache.

Ok, so bomb goes off in 1977, Richard see's it and assumes everyone dies, but that Richard that witnessed the bomb going off is Alternate Reality Richard, not Real Richard. So how the hell does real Richard know they died if he's not part of that timeline and he's already seen that they didn't die.

Oh and regards Desmond. If the bomb goes off, Widmore dies and Penny is left with her mum. Widmore industries never exists, Libby is never hired by Widmore to give Desmond the boat, Desmond takes a very different route from the moment he left the church.

Richar is a part of the island, he is a mistery yet for me, but if you looking at 6-th season you will see something more mistery that hapened eith Lock....

cause he's died.
a want to see faster

Well Richard and Sun are in the "old" reality when he said that. I think he saw the bomb explode but since he himself had no timeflash, he maybe also did not see that happening. Of course if the bomb really went off, then for me that makes sense.

We never saw alternate reality Richard. We only saw the island under water and the flight 815 going over it with our heroes and Desmond as only "new guy" there.
But Richard stays of course one of the strangest characters. He does not age, so I agree that he somehow belongs to the island. But he was also outside island when he tested Locke as a child. He seems to be somehow always number 2 (behind ben, assisting jakob, even in jughead he has some higher authority). I am not really sure about him jet.
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Now I get what you mean(I forgot about the sunken island scene ;), but anyway even if Desmond dind't go on that sailsbot race around the world, or if Penny doesn't exists or he just doens't met her, that doens't link him with the flight Oceanic 815, I mean that isn't a reason for him to be in that particular flight.

yes that is correct. For me that he appeared on the flight does show, that he is somehow important. But well I am unsure if he really is on the flight or if that was an illusion/jakob/something else..

Well Richard and Sun are in the "old" reality when he said that. I think he saw the bomb explode but since he himself had no timeflash, he maybe also did not see that happening. Of course if the bomb really went off, then for me that makes sense.

I wouldn't call it an old reality as both exist. Look below, the black line is what we've been watching for the last 5 years when the bomb didn't go off. So how can Richard who is part of the black line, know what happened on the green line when he's not part of it.
I have been wondering if that green line joins up with the black at some point but the problem with that is so many important people would have died with the hydrogen bomb and with the island being sunk.
What I've been thinking is that the green line is not an alt at all, it's temporal displacement in the same way Desmond experienced after blowing up the hatch.

Ah something just occurred to me. New image coming in a minute

This



We're working on the assumption that the Alt X universe is a result of the bomb going off and changing everything from 1977. What if Alt X is actually the result of something in the future? A future reset button (that could possibly be the bomb again) that once the programme ends, sends everyone back to just before the crash so they can live their lives.

In that case, one of the last things you'll see happening in Lost is how Jack manages to get that cut on his neck, right before that timeline ends. You'll also see the true ending in about 4 weeks when the alt timeline ends (for us at least)
This whole idea is based on the idea that you can actually change the past and future if you're able to time travel.
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hmm I thought so too, that the alternative universe is something that does not happen because of the bomb, but because of something else they changed back there. It is somewhat unlikely that the Island did drown because of the bomb.

Ok now I get what you wanted to say. Hmm.. Well why do they not remember anything then? Why don't they cheer or anything? Would be stupid, if they also would lose their memory of the events on the island :P

But yea, that cut is strange. It is not same injury as he had when airplane went down in season 1.



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Well they do seem to remember something, they seem to recognise each other. It could be temporal displacement or...

OK, I'm sure there is an idea somewhere in science that says if you destroy existence, you destroy the past of that existence too. Essentially what happened, didn't happen and no-one would be any the wiser except those who pass through from one existance to another who may have a vague memory of the other world.
This stuff was kind of suggested in Donnie Darko but never elaborated on. In that case though the alt universe was destroyed and normality resumes when Donnie allows himself to die so not to get caught in a never ending time paradox. In the case of Lost, it'd be the real universe that gets destroyed, which would bring up the Valenzetti equation I've been waiting for.

Hmm you may be right. IF you are correct then the good thing is, that both time lines matter. So both things we see now would be important and that would be great. Well that would probably lead LOST in a direction that the Losties somehow must cause this end of the world in the "real universe", right?

Is it possible that they get in history not to 2004 before but to 2003? I mean then there would have to be two Versions of Jack in that world, one living the life before the plane flight and one causing the Island to sink. It was possible that there were two versions of the same person in one timezone, so there must be also the possibility to have two versions of the same person in same "universe", right?

Well yeah it'd be possible that they could flash to before 2004 but having 2 versions of 1 person in the same timezone is impossible. Physically Real Jack would die with the end of the Real World, just like Juliet, and like her, a vague concious or memory would be transported back to 2004. That's what Juliet meant when she said "It worked" she'd gone back to around that time.

My final theory



I'm pretty convinced that unless it's Desmonds temporal displacement, which would explain why he was there, this is how it is. Claire knowing Aarons name by instinct while in the hospital says to me she's remembering it and that wouldn't be possible if Alt X was a direct line from the bomb as she'd never have experienced the island.

You are right, the thing with the name Aaron was strange, also Kate looking at Jack was very strange.

I personally am also thinking about what was before on the alternative timeline. You can see Desmond in plane has a wedding ring, so probably is married to Penny? You also see Ethan at the hospital, hurley seems to have used to numbers (and thus french chick Rousseau seems to have set off the signal with the numbers). So the bomb did surely not directly make the island go to the bottom of the sea, right? So there is still a part of the story missing before the point 2004 in your alt. timeline.

I personally think it is possible that there are two people at same timeline / universe. It did happen before with the timeflashes. They also flashed into times, when they were already alive (for example that time when you see what happened to Rousseau when she was still young: Jin found her. According to wikipedia this was 16 years before the plane crashed, so Jin does exist two times there, once on the island and once in Korea, I think there were also other flashes were people were two times on the island but I don't know which episodes now).
You are right that with Desmond it was the case that he skipped into himself when skipping back in time, but he was special anyway (forseeing future and all). So I think that your theory is very interesting and probably very true (so the old universe will be caused to be destroyed because of the many things that went out of logic there because of the fight between Jakob/light and dark (that is not over yet...) - like people being dead that should be alive, and others that have been revived and stuff like that. And then people have to find a way to flash to alternative timeline and cause the island to "drown" and they all have to die for this to work.

But then again I also would not like that, because this leads to the fact that most of the things on the island will never be explained at all. I would hate that but I think it is impossible to explain everything...

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