Subject: United States: Election Time

This is a moral grey area, but imo, abortion is not killing people, as it is only the removal of a couple of human cells. It is like you would cut out a piece of your arm. You cannot say that every cell in your body has its own rights.

Normally, it's only after 3 months of pregnancy that one can really speak of a little human being. Upto that point you cannot speak of a human being and therefore, upto that point abortion should be possible, imo.

Totally agreed wit that :-)

If we listened to the abortion's opponents, we would knit life jackets for spermatozoïds.

No, it's not. Live and let live. If you try to let live a sperm, it won't. An embryo has all that he or she needs to stay alive. Unless other people decide to take this away from him or her.

Let's be serious, nobody (^^) is for the abortion, no more than we are for the war. But sometimes, it is necessary to wage war.
(edited)

Maybe it could be a interesting thing for you to see your wife and/or your daughter raped by some males and then keeping all the babies... Like that you will have a big family.

If you use your imagination, then it's not a grey area. If you can imagine what would happen if you do the right thing (live and let live), then it's very white. We get millions and millions of people born. And more importantly, a general consensus about what is the right thing to do here, makes our relation to life, sex and family become healthier.

People tend to disagree on "when a war is necessary", I know some people who just did an abortion because they weren't in the right phase of their life. E.g. they wanted to have some more freedom/fun/make a career etc.

And what is the problem ? You want to keep the baby, it is your choice... You don't want to... It is your choice... It is clearly never the choice of the idea of the baby...

No, let's make it even more interesting. Let's imagine all of this happens to your family and that my family adopts all these babies. It will be more interesting and I will still have a big family. ;)

how many have you adopted already? I'm asking, because the orphanages are pretty full, so you might start the adopting thingie now :)

Too easy...

Let see your wife and daughter totally destroyed by some males for hours of horror... You can hear screams, sufferings of her bodies... And they put their sperm into her... You will like that, i'm so sure... hey will be totally aware and tolerant towards those males and will be so happy faces to let grow those part of raping into their bodies who remains for ever face to them...

As i say,.. Just too easy to say no to abortion... Live with rape for example and you'll know... Imagination seems to be good for you as you can do it easily with your god...

You are so narrow-minded poor guy...

Apparently we're on a whole different level of discussion here. In my opinion, a bunch of human cells does not always make a person, in your opinion it does. My stam cells have the same properties as a an embryo. Does that mean I have a human being in my spine? I don't think so. The grey area is the point where a lump of human cells changes into a human being. It is not a clearly defined point in time. That's why I'm convinced that abortion should be possible, but only early in the pregnancy.

Now, on a argumentation level: by always saying that there's a 'right thing' to do, you try to behave like a moral superior person, which is a wrong thing to do in a discussion. If you don't respect someone else's opinion, then you're not worthy of going in discussion with.

And more importantly, a general consensus about what is the right thing to do here, makes our relation to life, sex and family become healthier.

And that's, imo, unargumented bullshit. The life in abortion-free countries is of course so much healthier than the life in a abortion-admitting countries.

because if it wasn't protected then most probably it would end up with a new baby

noob ;-)

I'm allowed to bend the facts a bit for the sake of my argument!

;)

OK, and what would you say to the women who have actually been through such horrors and they actually decided to have their children? I've seen testimonies of women that were raped in Croatian war for freedom whose loving children are now happy grown-ups. They all say that the decision to keep their baby helped them greatly to overcome what happened to them and eventually forgive.

Maybe you can call some of these women and describe this same creative scene to them and explain to her in detail how horrible it is that she managed to be stronger than that. The only reason why you think that your description of such horrible scene is impressive is because you're afraid that such horrible event would be stronger than yourself. You're probably right. It takes a lot of faith and courage to overcome such horrible events. But if you perceive life as eternal, that becomes a much easier task.