Subject: Religions and sects

one of the tribes was sodom, i dont remember gommora, but there was an example from the roman empire. probably should check the english translation before being able to give the correct answer.

heh i'm christian and beleave in jesus cuz it's prooved he was alive :)

and in god i thrust...but i'm not an american :D

we believe in Jesus(peace be upon him), too. and we also believe he'll return.

In the original language... ;-) these are two cities/towns called S'dom and A'mor'a... translated several times through Greek, Latin and English back and forth until it became Sodom and Gomorra.

what exactly are the definitions of science and religion? What are the relations between them? Do they overlap, do they contradict each other?

Well, there are many definitions for religion and science which actually have many common points. Generally speaking science is a kind of a process that aims to get some knowledge (which is believed to be the so-called “scientific truth” in the end) through practical and concrete experiments, observing phenomena, drawing logical conclusions based on observation and so on. So it is actually a result of smth palpable, at least through human senses.

Religion ? Here one can discuss about defining it nights and nights, like we do now. Certain is that it is linked to our spiritual life. Now one can simply say “ok, can we prove the existence of the spirit scientifically?” And here the problems occur, like you asked – is there any relation between them, or if they contradict each other. I think a contradiction surely exists, religion affirms things that simply cannot be proved by scientific facts or methods.

However, science will never become a friend of religion, they are totally contradictory and their ways separate from the very beginning. Of course there are “sciences” that study religion, but this is another topic of discussion. They study the evolution of human spiritual life through centuries, trying thus to give a scientific explanation regarding cultures, traditions, beliefs, social and individual psychology of a community… or why and due to what religion appeared at all.

But my friend Mithos, this is a subject that can be discussed, I repeat, nights and nights and under influence of some good quality grass…:D

P.S. Are you from Holland? :XD

The Biblical defention of belief is: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)
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Well you can see it this way like you do (that science and religion are contradictory), for me they do not have to be. Most scientist do agree that there surely are things that have not yet been measured and that cannot directly be seen/felt etc by us. So if you are a true scientist then you know that nothing is for sure, you can only disproove hypothesis and scientific knowledge but you can never proof anything. So for me both things are seperated, they cannot measure each other in any way, but they are NOT contradictory. For me it is like the first thing is a star far far away and the other one is the potato peeler in my hand. They have nothing to do with each other.

That's a rather broad definition. It could include all kinds of beliefs. Even things like friendship, or gravity.

For me it is like the first thing is a star far far away and the other one is the potato peeler in my hand. They have nothing to do with each other.

Not that we know of, at least.

I don't agree science aims at anything at all.

Not even at knowledge?

The thing with religion is that it was created (from a non religious point of view, but even from a religious point of view it can be sad that religion is created around a god) by humans while science is a name given by humans to the process where people search to improve their tools. Knowledge came much later when people wanted to understand their tools so that they could make them even better.

I don't know how old the word 'science' in its current context is, but before we used the word 'science', we used the word 'natural philosophy' which, in my opinion, better describes the search for knowledge.

My point of this is that science does not search to defy religion as it doesn't have an aim itself.
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:P now honestly, do you really believ that some gods created our world, our galaxy, our life? Personally I see the evolution theory very close to the truth (but Mithos, truth - not from the philosophical point of view, because this way we can talk for ever if we approach Plato).

Actually who is God? Is is a spirit, a force, the Great Nothingness or The Nada? Is there any definition of God as we think about it, praying to some unknown Supreme Being that created the evolution itself? Do you really believe in Eden, in some Adam and Evas, apples or snakes? Angels and Demons... or angels that became demons? Lucifers and Belzebuts? Human imagination is so rich... hahahaha

Nice novel - Bible. Quite complicated, but there are accessible versions of it.

science aims at anything at all

Your deepness amazes me sometimes.

Of course, science is just for fun, it aims nothing

Evolution theory does not tell how life came to be or our universe :) Or where we go after death or where we come from.
The same also for other science. All they can say is how organic matter was created or humans but how life really started atm is still not known.
I myself have no opinion about how or why the universe, our galaxy and our life was created. I simply do not know.

No I don't believe in all this things you named. But still I say that this believe and science are not counterparts that have to fight each other. Of course there are parts in the bible that seem to be contradictory to science, but religion as a whole as an idea of where we come, what we should do and where we will go and that there is someone out there that made us and watches us, this is something science will never be able to "disproove" it is out of bounds for science, so no contradiction imho.

No, you didn't understand.

Science doesn't aim at anything, people practising science aim at something.