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Subject: First thoughts about countries
obviously, Armenia defends his position; Turkey too.
but in a neutral position, the majority of "civilized countries" (UN technicality) accepted this genocide.
Turkey will never accept this fact, for simple reason, than is very serious in Public International Law.
anyway, Turkey have other vision of this fact, they are a very different culture; with our occidental eyes, is too hard understand his conduct, as State and society.
edit: for me, was a genocide.
(edited)
but in a neutral position, the majority of "civilized countries" (UN technicality) accepted this genocide.
Turkey will never accept this fact, for simple reason, than is very serious in Public International Law.
anyway, Turkey have other vision of this fact, they are a very different culture; with our occidental eyes, is too hard understand his conduct, as State and society.
edit: for me, was a genocide.
(edited)
thisis not fail. the Turks made a genocide on armenians... that is history, that turkish government doesn;t want to accept it...
the Ottoman, British and American archives say the opposite. the Ottoman and Turkish archives are fully open to public, historians and scholars, but Armenians keep their archives closed because they know that their genocide lie will be revealed. they say they don't have enough money to categorize their archives therefore they can't open them. we offered 20 million $ aid for the classification but they didn't accept it. they also rejected Turkey's offer of a joint commission comprised of historians from both sides to invastigate what happened in 1915. an Armenian historian (Ara Sarafyan) accepted Turkey's offer but he bowed to the pressure from the Armenian diaspora.
whatever..
they'll keep shouting loud, you'll keep believing, but we'll never accept Armenian lies.
"Give a lie twenty-four hours start, and it will take a hundred years to overtake it." (C.F. Dixon-Johnson, British author of the 1916 book, "The Armenians," )
"It is... time that Americans ceased to be deceived by (Armenian) propaganda in behalf of policies which are... nauseating..." John Dewey, Columbia University professor, "The Turkish Tragedy," The New Republic, Nov. 1928
..Matter sent to the papers by their correspondents in Turkey is biased against the Turks. This implies an injustice against which even a criminal on trial is protected."
Gordon Bennett, publisher, The New York Herald, circa 1915
the Ottoman, British and American archives say the opposite. the Ottoman and Turkish archives are fully open to public, historians and scholars, but Armenians keep their archives closed because they know that their genocide lie will be revealed. they say they don't have enough money to categorize their archives therefore they can't open them. we offered 20 million $ aid for the classification but they didn't accept it. they also rejected Turkey's offer of a joint commission comprised of historians from both sides to invastigate what happened in 1915. an Armenian historian (Ara Sarafyan) accepted Turkey's offer but he bowed to the pressure from the Armenian diaspora.
whatever..
they'll keep shouting loud, you'll keep believing, but we'll never accept Armenian lies.
"Give a lie twenty-four hours start, and it will take a hundred years to overtake it." (C.F. Dixon-Johnson, British author of the 1916 book, "The Armenians," )
"It is... time that Americans ceased to be deceived by (Armenian) propaganda in behalf of policies which are... nauseating..." John Dewey, Columbia University professor, "The Turkish Tragedy," The New Republic, Nov. 1928
..Matter sent to the papers by their correspondents in Turkey is biased against the Turks. This implies an injustice against which even a criminal on trial is protected."
Gordon Bennett, publisher, The New York Herald, circa 1915
and do you think that cypriots lie too ?
(edited)
(edited)
=)) yeah for sure brithsh and US archives ahve info about that so detalied better than your neighbor countries...
and besides.. don't forget that history is always changed by the political pressure....
and besides.. don't forget that history is always changed by the political pressure....
now in the end it lef tto say that Ottoomans never attacked Romania and Moldova =) and its just a myth xD
who killed who first? eoka (terrorist organization) killed many Turks in Cyprus believing the idea of pure greek cyprus, so we made a peace operation and defended cypriot Turks.
yes everything is a myth for you. how primitv your gouvernment is shows just the Orhan Pamuk's case.. a Noble Prize winner who had to flew form Turkey after saying there was a genocide...
btw: my grandparnets are survivors of genocide..
(edited)
btw: my grandparnets are survivors of genocide..
(edited)
Would you wish to be an Armenian in 1915?
The following article titled "Genocide..." was published on 9th May 2005 in the popular Turkish political commentary website http://www.Gazetem.net.
I would like to ask a very simple, ordinary question.
Would you wish to be an Armenian in 1915?
No, you wouldn't.
Because now you know you would have been killed.
Please stop arguing about the number of murdered or the denials or the attempts to replace pain with statistics.
No one is denying that Armenians were murdered, right?
It may be 300,000, or 500,000, or 1.5 million.
I don't know which number is the truth, or whether anyone knows the true number accurately.
What I do know is the existence of the death and pain beyond these numbers.
I am also aware how we forget that we are talking about human beings when we are passionately debating the numbers.
Those numbers cannot describe the murdered babies, women, the elderly, the teenage boys and girls.
If we leave the numbers aside, and if we allow ourselves to hear the story of only one of these murders, I am sure that even those of us who get enraged when they hear the words "Armenian Genocide" will feel the pain, will have tears in their eyes.
Because they will realize that we are talking about human beings.
When we hear about a baby pulled from a mother's hands to be dashed on the rocks, or a youth shot to death beside a hill, or an old woman throttled by her slender neck, even the hard-hearted among us will be ashamed to say, "Yes, but these people killed the Turks."
Most of these people did not kill anyone.
These people became the innocent victims of a crazed government powered by murder, pitiless but also totally incompetent in governing.
This bloody insanity was a barbarism, not something for us to take pride in or be part of.
This was a slaughter that we should be ashamed of, and, if possible, something that we can sympathize with and share the pain.
I understand that the word "genocide" has a damningly critical meaning, based on the relentless insistence of the Armenians' "Accept the Genocide" argument, or the Turks' "No, it was not a genocide" counterargument, even though the Turks accept the death of hundreds of thousands of Armenians.
And yet, this word is not that important for me, even though it has significance in politics and diplomacy.
What is more important for me is the fact that many innocent people were killed so barbarically.
When I see the shadow of this bloody event on the present world, I see a greater injustice done to the Armenians.
Our crime today is not to allow the present Armenians even to grieve for their cruelly killed relatives and parents.
Which Armenian living in Turkey today can openly grieve and commemorate a murdered grandmother, grandfather or uncle?
I have nothing in common with the terrible sin of the past Ittihadists, but the sin of not allowing grief for the dead belongs to all of us today.
Do you really want to commit this sin?
Is there anyone among us who would not shed tears for a family attacked at home in the middle of the night, or for a little girl left all alone in the desert during the nightmare called "deportation," or for a white-bearded grandfather shot?
Whether you call it genocide or not, hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered.
Hundreds of thousands of lives snuffed out.
The fact that some Armenian gangs murdered some Turks cannot be an excuse to mask the truth that hundreds of thousands of Armenians were murdered.
A human being of conscience is capable of grieving for the Armenians, as well as the Turks, as well as the Kurds.
We all should.
Babies died; women and old people died.
They died in pain, tormented, terrified.
Is it really so important what religion or race these murdered people had?
Even in these terrifying times there were Turks who risked their lives trying to rescue Armenian children.
We are the children of these rescuers, as well as the children of the murderers.
Instead of justifying and arguing on behalf of the murderers, why don't we praise and defend the rescuers' compassion, honesty, and courage?
There are no more victims left to be rescued today, but there is a grief, a pain, to be shared and supported.
What's the use of a bloody, warmongering dance around a deep pain?
Forget the numbers, forget the Armenians, forget the Turks, just think of the babies, teenagers, and old people with necks broken, bellies slashed, bodies mutilated. Think about these people, one by one.
If nothing moves in you when you hear a baby wail as her mother is murdered, I have nothing to say to you.
Then add my name to the list of "traitors."
Because I am ready to share the grief and pain with the Armenians.
Because I still believe there is something yet to be rescued from all these meaningless and pitiless arguments, and that something is called "humanity."
The following article titled "Genocide..." was published on 9th May 2005 in the popular Turkish political commentary website http://www.Gazetem.net.
I would like to ask a very simple, ordinary question.
Would you wish to be an Armenian in 1915?
No, you wouldn't.
Because now you know you would have been killed.
Please stop arguing about the number of murdered or the denials or the attempts to replace pain with statistics.
No one is denying that Armenians were murdered, right?
It may be 300,000, or 500,000, or 1.5 million.
I don't know which number is the truth, or whether anyone knows the true number accurately.
What I do know is the existence of the death and pain beyond these numbers.
I am also aware how we forget that we are talking about human beings when we are passionately debating the numbers.
Those numbers cannot describe the murdered babies, women, the elderly, the teenage boys and girls.
If we leave the numbers aside, and if we allow ourselves to hear the story of only one of these murders, I am sure that even those of us who get enraged when they hear the words "Armenian Genocide" will feel the pain, will have tears in their eyes.
Because they will realize that we are talking about human beings.
When we hear about a baby pulled from a mother's hands to be dashed on the rocks, or a youth shot to death beside a hill, or an old woman throttled by her slender neck, even the hard-hearted among us will be ashamed to say, "Yes, but these people killed the Turks."
Most of these people did not kill anyone.
These people became the innocent victims of a crazed government powered by murder, pitiless but also totally incompetent in governing.
This bloody insanity was a barbarism, not something for us to take pride in or be part of.
This was a slaughter that we should be ashamed of, and, if possible, something that we can sympathize with and share the pain.
I understand that the word "genocide" has a damningly critical meaning, based on the relentless insistence of the Armenians' "Accept the Genocide" argument, or the Turks' "No, it was not a genocide" counterargument, even though the Turks accept the death of hundreds of thousands of Armenians.
And yet, this word is not that important for me, even though it has significance in politics and diplomacy.
What is more important for me is the fact that many innocent people were killed so barbarically.
When I see the shadow of this bloody event on the present world, I see a greater injustice done to the Armenians.
Our crime today is not to allow the present Armenians even to grieve for their cruelly killed relatives and parents.
Which Armenian living in Turkey today can openly grieve and commemorate a murdered grandmother, grandfather or uncle?
I have nothing in common with the terrible sin of the past Ittihadists, but the sin of not allowing grief for the dead belongs to all of us today.
Do you really want to commit this sin?
Is there anyone among us who would not shed tears for a family attacked at home in the middle of the night, or for a little girl left all alone in the desert during the nightmare called "deportation," or for a white-bearded grandfather shot?
Whether you call it genocide or not, hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered.
Hundreds of thousands of lives snuffed out.
The fact that some Armenian gangs murdered some Turks cannot be an excuse to mask the truth that hundreds of thousands of Armenians were murdered.
A human being of conscience is capable of grieving for the Armenians, as well as the Turks, as well as the Kurds.
We all should.
Babies died; women and old people died.
They died in pain, tormented, terrified.
Is it really so important what religion or race these murdered people had?
Even in these terrifying times there were Turks who risked their lives trying to rescue Armenian children.
We are the children of these rescuers, as well as the children of the murderers.
Instead of justifying and arguing on behalf of the murderers, why don't we praise and defend the rescuers' compassion, honesty, and courage?
There are no more victims left to be rescued today, but there is a grief, a pain, to be shared and supported.
What's the use of a bloody, warmongering dance around a deep pain?
Forget the numbers, forget the Armenians, forget the Turks, just think of the babies, teenagers, and old people with necks broken, bellies slashed, bodies mutilated. Think about these people, one by one.
If nothing moves in you when you hear a baby wail as her mother is murdered, I have nothing to say to you.
Then add my name to the list of "traitors."
Because I am ready to share the grief and pain with the Armenians.
Because I still believe there is something yet to be rescued from all these meaningless and pitiless arguments, and that something is called "humanity."
=)) yeah for sure brithsh and US archives ahve info about that so detalied better than your neighbor countries...
as i said before they(Armenia) don't open their archives to anybody because the truth scares them.
@Armeniak
open your archives or keep your lies to yourselves.
as i said before they(Armenia) don't open their archives to anybody because the truth scares them.
@Armeniak
open your archives or keep your lies to yourselves.
@ all: keep your comments for yourself, this isnt a topic about who is right ;)
Original telegram by Henry Morgenthau(Ambassadors of the United States to the Ottoman Empire)
you lost me at http://www.Gazetem.net. that's an Anti-Turk website.
a croatian talking about human rights. how ironic..
@langhe
this is not a ''false accusations'' topic, either.
@Armeniak
open your archives.
a croatian talking about human rights. how ironic..
@langhe
this is not a ''false accusations'' topic, either.
@Armeniak
open your archives.
I will close this thread if the politics spam continues.
i dont see the point in opening topics for uncultured ignorants to talk nonsense about countries they havent ever been to and in disrespectfull manners.. quite stupid topic.