Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems

They have had severe economic problems in the past too.

We have a Phd on economics crisis and corrupt politicians.

We don't call that a crisis anymore, we just call it the transition between one government period and another. Like a leap year, happens every 4 years or so :P.

Most european here seem tobe either too naive, or unable to put themseves in some1 elses shoes

I'd rather say most Europeans here see it from an economical point of view because they're - fortunately - unable to know excactly what's going on because they've never been in this kinda situation.

And even after 22 pages full of detailled information I still would write the same thing as in my first post on the first page (maybe without the last paragraph). Even though many of you - especially the Greeks - tried and I think also succeeded in explaining their current situation from their point of view I still cannot understand why they're striking! I still didn't get any explanation which could convince me.

And someone - don't remember who it was - made a good post by writing he can understand that the Greek are demonstrating but he cannot understand why they're striking.

he cannot understand why they're striking.

To show that everything has a limit? To put their word up in the sky?

As i said I have no clue of economics, but as far as I can understand, pretty much the government is not listening at all to the people and have all their efforts focusing on what the IMF asks them to do. When you realize that a situation reached its limit, but still the government is pushing forward, and even worse, you realize that in the future things are going to get nothing but worse (it doesn't matter if it actually is going to get worse or not, what it matters is what you feel, and even worse when you feel powerless) well, at one point, is time to make yourself loud and clear.

They don't have solutions, and it wouldn't be wise to ask solutions to an angry mob.

Well...but why do they expect? To get money from UE and keep on wasting the same way that made them end up in this situation? Or maybe they want the country to go bankrupt?

Okay, but what are the politicians supposed to do? They have to accept these measures, and okay, they might be a bunch of liars, but again, this is a very bad time. You can punish your politicians by not voting any more for that party.

Just an example, lets say you are some 1 about to be retire(no idea by law which age is that in Greece, in Argentina 65 years old for men, lets use that age), so you have 60 years old, you worked more than 40 years and with a few years left for you to retire, the goverment lowers your future retirement pension, moreover economy drops cause of the global crisis, plus people's wages are lowered and many are being fired(1 of which can also, and probably it's gonna be that man of 60 years old), so either you have people jobless, with people with lowered wages that makes economy drop faster, cause they have no money to spend, apart form that the lucky ones that still have their jobs in crisis times will think like 10 times before spend money that may need later(that in another situation would spend in a blink of an eye), so economy drops even more, business fall, so banks don't lend money and don't make business(cause no 1 want to owe to the bank in crisis times), so they fall too, people gets scared and runs to the banks to retire their money before the bank goes bankrupt, that makes the bank go eventually bankrupt, cause they don't have the money to pay to all their clients, eventually financial system collapses, banks runaway with people's money, and you end up in this vice circle, from which is really hard to get out, capitalism is a machinery that needs for people to spend, spend and spend money, not cutting loses. Then that 60 years old man loses his job(people with most years tend to have the highest wages, therefore are within the first to be fired), so you have 60 years old man in coutry in crisis, with problably 0,00000001% for that person to have another job of a relative same status that he used to have, with the few savings he had stolen by his bank and worst of all if that person is lucky enough to reach his retirement age will have ludicrous pension. So if that aren't reasons for you to strike, bitch, shout, protest, or whatever, I don't know which reason you need.

(edited)

but as far as I can understand, pretty much the government is not listening at all to the people and have all their efforts focusing on what the IMF asks them to do.

I'm against striking all the time, I don't see anything good in striking. Demonstrating ok, but striking is - for me personally - a no go.
But if there are good and bad moments to strike, this one is the worst possible one! Who are they striking against? Against the government which is bankrupt? Against the countries which will lend money? And why striking if you can't come up with a better solution?

Well, you don't need to repeat any post, I've read all the 22 pages carefully because I'm interested in this topic. I also understand the feelings, anger or whatever that is around for the Greek, but honestly, I just cannot - and probably will not even after another 22 pages - see any good reason for striking ...

Sometimes(or somewhere, Argentina for example) you have to chose between 2(or like a zillion) bad options. So you vote for the less worse(if the expression it's aloud to me :P).

But striking is not the less worse option imo ;-)

Was writing while you were writing

So if that aren't reasons for you to strike, bitch, shout, protest, or whatever, I don't know which reason you need.

Like I wrote in the previous post, I don't see anything good in striking, therefore I honestly can say, whatever reason you give me, it's gonna be hard to persuade me that striking can be a good thing ;-)
bitch, shout, protest, ok, no problem with that, but striking? No way.

And a country - or many of its people at least - who's close to being bankrupt and who's close to receive some financial help from other countries isn't in a situation to strike imo.

As i said, if you expect that an angry mob will have an economic solution, then really have no clue of how masses act.

It is time for the greek people to whine and scream, if you ever went through that, you will understand.

I have seen how people went through being 45 with a safe job and enough saved money in the bank to buy a house, the next day the banks didn't let her take his OWN money, then her savings went low to by 30% (while the apartment that was about to buy didn't get devaluated, but worse), during the next few weeks get fired of a job that held for 25 years or so, being too "specialized" (basically old) to get a job as qualified as the one before).

During that period, there were news about that she will never ever get her savings back, seeing how prices were rising, how presidents were coming and going day after day.

What do you expect to do? Do you expect her to make an analysis of current crisis and propose a solution? Say... o well I voted for them, it's my fault an noone else to blame?? Nope, it is whine and scream time, and you better make the rest of the world that you are fed up, and that you won't let anyuone squeeze you anymore.

Striking is the best way for your voice to be heard, cause that hurts the powerful people's pockets, and that they can hear, they are soundproof to manisfestations.

(edited)

It is time for the greek people to whine and scream, if you ever went through that, you will understand.

I haven't, but I do understand it. I just say that it isn't very wise given the current circumstances.

But it is not about wisdom at all

btw hows ur country nowdays? you still suffer the same as in 1995?