Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems
euro debt crisis is political test for eurozone countries not only greek problem
last few months left greece alone in the fight against Vulture Funds
at the same time, some northern countries like Germany and the Netherlands via their media are still playing “beggar thy neighbor” by their reluctance to stimulate their own domestic purchasing, which could help weaker countries to export.
cause The southerners need the others to create more domestic demand and be less export dependent.
last few months left greece alone in the fight against Vulture Funds
at the same time, some northern countries like Germany and the Netherlands via their media are still playing “beggar thy neighbor” by their reluctance to stimulate their own domestic purchasing, which could help weaker countries to export.
cause The southerners need the others to create more domestic demand and be less export dependent.
Are you being serious? Please correct me if I understand you wrong: Because the some northern allies didn't buy more goods (and indirectly from your country), your economy fell? That is like saying a hotel bankrupted because of the people that didn't came there. But let's add some nuance. Ofcourse your economy (and that of others) could be stimulated by some more export and maybe it would have helped something, but to blame others for such a thing and don't look at yourself....hopefully I misunderstood you.
e.g greece and economic relations with germany :trading partner+Cohesion Fund=1/8 ( for 1 euro for greece income earned 8 Euros for germany)
also
a comparison of Greece and Germany reveals the core of the problem. Greece's current account deficit had reached nearly 15% of GDP in 2007 and has recently come down slightly as a result of falling imports. Between 2000 and 2010 Greece's exports were sluggish at 1.8% in real terms, but domestic demand rose at a healthy 2.3%. (All figures are from the Statistical Annex of European Economy.) Real compensation to labour increased at 1.9% per employee annually, a little less than productivity and solid indeed. But nominal compensation grew by 4.9% and the ratio of nominal compensation to productivity (unit labour costs), the most important measure of international competitiveness in a currency union, advanced at a rate of 2.7% per year and reached a level of 130 in 2010 if 2000 is 100.
The biggest country in the EU, Germany, accumulated a huge current account surplus in the same period, culminating at 8% in 2007. Between 2003 and 2007 Germany's real exports exploded but domestic demand stagnated. Nominal compensation and unit labour costs in Germany also rose only marginally over the decade, the latter reaching a level of 105.5 in 2010 (0.5% annual rate). Stagnant real compensation explains the sluggish domestic demand given that employment creation did not follow the wage restraint. Flat unit labour costs explain the explosion of exports, in particular before the crisis and against EMU members; the share of intra-EU exports of goods in Germany's GDP rose from 16.6% in 1999 to 25.7% in 2007.
The gap in unit labour costs means that a comparable basket of goods and services produced at the same cost in 2000 in all the EU member states now costs 25% more if it comes from Greece than if it comes from Germany. The difference is similar for Spain, Portugal and Italy. But the difference is also 13% for France, although France was the only country where unit labour costs followed strictly the inflation target of 2% set by the European Central Bank.
also
a comparison of Greece and Germany reveals the core of the problem. Greece's current account deficit had reached nearly 15% of GDP in 2007 and has recently come down slightly as a result of falling imports. Between 2000 and 2010 Greece's exports were sluggish at 1.8% in real terms, but domestic demand rose at a healthy 2.3%. (All figures are from the Statistical Annex of European Economy.) Real compensation to labour increased at 1.9% per employee annually, a little less than productivity and solid indeed. But nominal compensation grew by 4.9% and the ratio of nominal compensation to productivity (unit labour costs), the most important measure of international competitiveness in a currency union, advanced at a rate of 2.7% per year and reached a level of 130 in 2010 if 2000 is 100.
The biggest country in the EU, Germany, accumulated a huge current account surplus in the same period, culminating at 8% in 2007. Between 2003 and 2007 Germany's real exports exploded but domestic demand stagnated. Nominal compensation and unit labour costs in Germany also rose only marginally over the decade, the latter reaching a level of 105.5 in 2010 (0.5% annual rate). Stagnant real compensation explains the sluggish domestic demand given that employment creation did not follow the wage restraint. Flat unit labour costs explain the explosion of exports, in particular before the crisis and against EMU members; the share of intra-EU exports of goods in Germany's GDP rose from 16.6% in 1999 to 25.7% in 2007.
The gap in unit labour costs means that a comparable basket of goods and services produced at the same cost in 2000 in all the EU member states now costs 25% more if it comes from Greece than if it comes from Germany. The difference is similar for Spain, Portugal and Italy. But the difference is also 13% for France, although France was the only country where unit labour costs followed strictly the inflation target of 2% set by the European Central Bank.
Lot of people in my family lost money that way (I didn't because I have never trusted banks in Argentina).
But I don't think the problems were coming from the IMF, they made bad recipes, but we have 25 years of corruption and political fights and that was our fault.
EU may suffer from this, but is their fault because they accepted Greece as partner and I could have been worse, the could have accepted Turkey as well.
By the way, the countries that are economically better don't strike (*) because they have a good economy or the contries don't strike are better economically because don't strike (*)?
(*) I meant don't strike with lot of violence
But I don't think the problems were coming from the IMF, they made bad recipes, but we have 25 years of corruption and political fights and that was our fault.
EU may suffer from this, but is their fault because they accepted Greece as partner and I could have been worse, the could have accepted Turkey as well.
By the way, the countries that are economically better don't strike (*) because they have a good economy or the contries don't strike are better economically because don't strike (*)?
(*) I meant don't strike with lot of violence
Sorry, I think I missed the point where you presented that fact: employees from public sector retire at the age of 50 and get afaik 90% of their base wage. Add the fact, that the public sector is quite big, and you'll get one giant debt-creating mess. No country can afford that.
So please don't search for the problem abroad. It's right under your nose...
So please don't search for the problem abroad. It's right under your nose...
that the public sector is quite big, and you'll get one giant debt-creating mess. No country can afford that.
Sometimes I feel that Canada can afford that, that why we pay those huge taxes.
Sometimes I feel that Canada can afford that, that why we pay those huge taxes.
I think IMF recipes with the dumbass incompetent politician as De la Rua was like playing russian roulette with a revolver with it's cylinder full of bullets, we can say anything about Menem, but he was a pure breed politician, in my opinion with not the best economic inclination(we had a strong currency, so people with salaries had very good wages, but there wasn't any opportunites for national production, the country was ina recesion, so no1 dare to produce anything, everythings was imported from abroad, then there weren't many job opportunities but the people with salaries could affoard very good living standards, although poor people, not employed, with the few bucks they could scratch could do much more than they do now), but as pure breed politician he had capabilities to keep control of a tight situation. Now we are in totally the other position, the country is growing there are much more national production, much more medium and small business, therefore much more job opportunities, but with inflation and the weakening of the currency employed people can barely reach end of the month, poor people, jobless is even worst, they can't do anything with few bucks the can get. I think we should aim to something inbetween those 2 positions.
About strikes, I think there are moments were strikes are totally comprehensible(like our 2001 or right now in Greece), but most of the times, at least in Argentina, labor unions use strikes to put preassure to employers and goverments for things that aren't worth going to strike they just abuse of the right to strike, to grow in political power. I think in developed countries if they go to strike is only for good reasons(labor unions leaders probably are much much better than ours), although probably countries don't give many reasosn to workers to go to strike, I think it's a little of both.
(edited)
About strikes, I think there are moments were strikes are totally comprehensible(like our 2001 or right now in Greece), but most of the times, at least in Argentina, labor unions use strikes to put preassure to employers and goverments for things that aren't worth going to strike they just abuse of the right to strike, to grow in political power. I think in developed countries if they go to strike is only for good reasons(labor unions leaders probably are much much better than ours), although probably countries don't give many reasosn to workers to go to strike, I think it's a little of both.
(edited)
The myth of the “lazy Greeks”
What about the age of retirement and pension levels? If you were to believe the media Greeks live in a kind of workers’ paradise, where they can all retire early and nice big pensions. Again, facts and figures are stubborn things and they give a completely different picture. The average age of retirement in Greece is 61.4 years, a little higher than the European average of 61.1 years.
And what about these fat Greek pensions? According to the GSEE Labour Institution, the average pension in Greece is 750 euros per months [£650 pounds or US$990], while in Spain this figure reaches 950 euros, in Ireland 1700 euros, in Belgium 2800 euros and in the Netherlands 3200 euros. Moreover, this figure was calculated before the implementation of the new government measures, which increase the age of retirement from 65 to 67 years while at the same time cutting pensions by 30 to 50%.
According to Eurostat, Greek workers work on average longer hours than the rest of Europeans. They work a 42-hour week, while the average working week in the 27 member states of the EU is 40.3 hours and within in the “Eurozone” it is 40 hours. So that is myth number one dispelled.
Again, according to Eurostat, Greece also has the most underpaid private sector employees compared to the rest of the “Eurozone”. In Greece, the average gross monthly wage, including social security and taxes, is 803 euros [about £700 or US$1063], while the lowest gross salary in, for example, Ireland is 1300 euros, in France 1250 euros and in the Netherlands 1400 euros. So myth number two doesn’t stand up to any serious analysis of the real figures.
What about the age of retirement and pension levels? If you were to believe the media Greeks live in a kind of workers’ paradise, where they can all retire early and nice big pensions. Again, facts and figures are stubborn things and they give a completely different picture. The average age of retirement in Greece is 61.4 years, a little higher than the European average of 61.1 years.
And what about these fat Greek pensions? According to the GSEE Labour Institution, the average pension in Greece is 750 euros per months [£650 pounds or US$990], while in Spain this figure reaches 950 euros, in Ireland 1700 euros, in Belgium 2800 euros and in the Netherlands 3200 euros. Moreover, this figure was calculated before the implementation of the new government measures, which increase the age of retirement from 65 to 67 years while at the same time cutting pensions by 30 to 50%.
According to Eurostat, Greek workers work on average longer hours than the rest of Europeans. They work a 42-hour week, while the average working week in the 27 member states of the EU is 40.3 hours and within in the “Eurozone” it is 40 hours. So that is myth number one dispelled.
Again, according to Eurostat, Greece also has the most underpaid private sector employees compared to the rest of the “Eurozone”. In Greece, the average gross monthly wage, including social security and taxes, is 803 euros [about £700 or US$1063], while the lowest gross salary in, for example, Ireland is 1300 euros, in France 1250 euros and in the Netherlands 1400 euros. So myth number two doesn’t stand up to any serious analysis of the real figures.
The myth of the “lazy Greeks”
media stereotypes or how many lies ;)
(edited)
media stereotypes or how many lies ;)
(edited)
omg, where do you get these numbers? I cant believe them.
But what i can tell for sure is that average pension in Slovakia is 350 euros. So you have more then two times more. Sorry but you have HUGE pensions.
But what i can tell for sure is that average pension in Slovakia is 350 euros. So you have more then two times more. Sorry but you have HUGE pensions.
average pension in Slovakia is 350 euros
lol,thats the maximum you can get in Croatia, unless you worked abroad
lol,thats the maximum you can get in Croatia, unless you worked abroad
yeah and now imagine that you have to donate 750 euro greek pension :D. And they are nearly revolting.
Just show the real figure of the percentage of public employees and compare them to other countries. Then think of the fact that all who don't work in public sector have to pay for those in public sector. It is unnecessary to compare between the countries, just look at Greece's situation!
For example; it shows that dutch pension is 3200 euro on average and that we pay 1400 euro to public workers. Both are the highest within the numbers you mention. But, we don't have too many public workers AND our other wages are much higher as well so there is no problem. Also, our pension system is much different.
Again, I will say; don't make unneeded comparisons to make yourself believe what is wrong. Greece has problems by itself which it needs to solve by itself (with the financial help of Europe and IMF). There is nothing that will be changed to that fact.
For example; it shows that dutch pension is 3200 euro on average and that we pay 1400 euro to public workers. Both are the highest within the numbers you mention. But, we don't have too many public workers AND our other wages are much higher as well so there is no problem. Also, our pension system is much different.
Again, I will say; don't make unneeded comparisons to make yourself believe what is wrong. Greece has problems by itself which it needs to solve by itself (with the financial help of Europe and IMF). There is nothing that will be changed to that fact.