Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems

VAT is 19.6 % in France

slovak average net salary is maybe about 500, so ? our oil price is one of most expensive and we are not greeks :) ... so, where was the point ?
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Please throw Greece out of the EU now. George Papandreou is a joke.

cry more plz. my wage is 176 euro per month for 8 or more hours of work 5 or more days a week, i dont even care if they throw us out of EU just stop complaining people about the money EU gives as a LOAN
and btw i wont cry about my wage (which is atm the average ) cause i grew up learning 1 thing... dont wait for the $$$ wage just make your work worthing more than that wage.

I wish for you that you just wont pay your debt and refuse any "help" from EU..

I wish the same for Italy..
as Argentina and Iceland demonstrate... those ideas of acceptin FMI/EU helps is a losing one (for normal people..).
Better to face the problems as citizens that become slaves.

Yes, a loan. Of which we'll see 50% never back. Not really loans then.

The problem is that Greece seems to not appreciate other countries help. Over half of your population dont want to save temporarily to get your asses up the mud. I mean, 8 billion euros worth of fake-pensions, 14 months pay for 8 months of work. Of course not all of you are part of it and i know it seems unreasonable for guys like you(low-payed honest workers) to start tightening your expenses, but unfortunately its the only way, you only make up 2% of EU economy, so its possible to restructure your economy without big losses to Europe in general(coz europe is only gonna loan you money they probably wont see anymore, which means its gonna be a one-time offer, rather than endless supply), but only if you supress your egos, otherwise its bye-bye.

Unfortunately your prime minister was dumb enough to not force that decision, so
hopefully on friday you will vote yes to the crisis-plan, because if you dont you are out of EU for sure and it means you are probably gonna start declining towards african countries than rising up to europe level.


Its for your own good, ALL of Europe sees that, but not you in Greece. Whats wrong with ya guys?

On the other hand maybe your prime minister has the right attitude. Now we see if Greece wants help or wants to get out. There is no third way and its all gonna be decided with one public poll. Fast end to a year and a half suffer for Europe.(at least in Greece question)
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You havent understand and you are out of reallity all!
The problem is european and not a problem of Hellas only.
The problem is that greek people see the 600 euro wage to go low to 400.The problem is that troika demand from Greece goverment to steal the money from the pensions of old people.The problem is that troika demands except this to put extra taxes to people that live with 400 euro.Thee problem is that some other clubs create that technical crises and they have one target.To destroy european community.They want to start with Hellas.THE DEBT OF HELLAS IS NOT SO BIG AS THEY SAY 600 BILLION EUROS.NO WAY.At least 60% is taxes and overtaxes from the money thαt lent to Greece a few time ago.
The problem is that with that money tha German giving want from Greece to take her sovereignty...ΤΗΑΤ WILL NEVER HAPPEN...So european community create the problem that didnt take rules..in the past and left banking system with no control.
STOP EVERY MAN HERE SAYING THESE THINGS WITHOUT HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON THAT THEME.
IF HELLAS LEAVE FROM EURO ALL THE EUROPEAN SYSTEM WILL BE DESTROYED.Other countries are in the place of Greece too but now the target of Mason clubs is fisrtly Greece in order to procceed to their targets that are:
global governance,global coin global religion.You must know that the debt of German is 3 times much more from Hellas debt but they keep it hide!If Hellas leave euro and return to her own coin will be better than take now the lent money and be slave of German...And after a little time German will say give us Greece the PARTHENON...give sas the RHODE ISLAND GIVE AS THE OIL...OF AEGEAN..AND OF IONION PELAGOS..GIVE US MORE AND MORE...
German must give first the 400 billion that owes to Greece from the crimes and the gold that HAVE stOlEN during the war and some money that we lent them before and after.And make her real debt to not hide any more that is bigger than Hellas.
And then you will all see that al the countries are bankrupt and with big debt..Euro coin is a baloon!
Soon you all will see the attack to other countries...After Hellas going to be more counTRies..This is a mystic plan of mason clubs.WAKE UP!BEFORE IS TOO LATE!
And stop be agreesive with Hellas.I repeat.If Hellas leave and return to her coin the problems to your countries...and other countries of eurozone..will be worst and worst...than Greece problems..

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To save Greece was not at all the objectiv anyway. Greece is already lost, within or outside the Euro. European plan was to avoid contagion in other country, but it has already failed.
It's all about Italy right now, and France in a 2nd step.

I agree.But Greece will be beter outside eurozone.Believe me.But in case will stay as you said the other will be at Italy and france.Maybe Portugal too.And to be continiued..

if Greece go outside the eurozone, the new greece currency will devalue very fast. The debts will quadruple or worse.

The main problem of Greece is the corrruption of the politicians of the population. Yesterday it was on the news that the greece gouvernement paid 8 billion pensions for people who are dead already. There are people who never paied there water bill, etc.
So appearently corruption seems to be socialy accepted in Greece (at least for a part of the population). In this case you don't deserve even better than this problems...

BTW if the budget of Greece wasn't corrupt you was never allowed in the eurozone.

I will not talk about your current salaries, but I find this on various pages....

Greece average salary
manufacturing average income net 1078 / gross 1330€ 21% compulsory deductions
hotels restaurants average income net 727 / gross 853€ 22% comp. deduct.

Slovak average salary
manafactoring average income net 444 usd / gross 584 € 22% compulsory deductions
hotels restaurants average income net 335usd / gross 440€ 22% comp. deduct.

I forgot year but around 2003-2005.

But I find also:

2007
– The basic gross salary for a civil servant with a compulsory education is 711 euros/month. A majority 80 percent of workers in the public sector earn 1000-1500 euros/month and have salaries 40 percent higher than private sector workers, once allowances and bonuses are added.

from greece page :-DD
Credit link: http://livingingreece.gr/2007/07/29/examples-of-jobs-and-salaries-in-athens/#ixzz1cWisAGmH


then:


oecd
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx

USD
greece av. annual wages 2000 = 14 189 2005 18 946 in NCU
slovakia 2000 = 5305 2005 7961


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or you can show me more stats.... and then we can start talk if you lived in prosperity bought by loans or not. You should especially focus on wages of state employees. In ma country it is not the best paid jobs, in your country it is luxury jobs :-(

Greece outside EU... they will cry cos as you said they currency will dramatically devalue ... then I can go with my poor salary on holiday to Greece as a rich man :-)

Devalue currency will help for their export, if they have all natural resources at home, otherwise they will be forced buy resources for mad money, cos their low currency....

Also I suppose outside EU they will start era of high inflation, so even their new currency will be useless, hard damaged every year by high inflation....

To save Greece was not at all the objectiv anyway. Greece is already lost, within or outside the Euro. European plan was to avoid contagion in other country, but it has already failed.
It's all about Italy right now, and France in a 2nd step.

I agree.
I wish elections very soon for us (remember Spain were in worst trouble than us and they come out only with announcing elections..)

by the way EU asked the same kid of stupid policies to Italy (longer work life before pension, less public services, more privatizations, selling of public assets, less rule in work market and in firing workers..)

How they think an economy can restart without internal consumption?


Believe me. EU has noboby driving it!!!
Bankers need to make profict in a short time and so give their short time strategy orders to politician.
Politician has to get short time benefits from their armchair so they accept to do anything..
Democracy has not any weapon against this, cause the most of people can't undestand what all this crisis is for..
People still vote and think as we are communist/fascist/liberal/socialist..
there's no control of politics on economics but the opposite..

the only solution is NOT to pay public debt!

not to paying debts are just slogan, it is not real... or we can go back to caves and start eating raw meat..

but I agree, this problems are caused by democracy system.... a lot of people are sheeps and politicans are pigs.... as Caesar said: "let's give bread and games to people and we can start rules".. or sth like this :-)