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Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems
In this specific case, it's about numbers. Don't pretend I don't know what I'm studying.
When someone says: okay, my government has a huge deficit, but I always paid my taxes, I really can't do anything else than laughing. That's what this was about.
(edited)
When someone says: okay, my government has a huge deficit, but I always paid my taxes, I really can't do anything else than laughing. That's what this was about.
(edited)
In this specific case is especially about humans behaviour! More than ever!
If You don't see it You will never understand why numbers are like they are...
If You don't see it You will never understand why numbers are like they are...
Its based on a private joke between my friends and I. Stephen Fry is a rather intelligent and well spoken man if you want me to break it down.
This crisis has multiple causes:
- the irresponsible behavior of governments, who maintain a high debt rate,
- the lack of regulation in the bank system, and
- the failing of the euro system, due to the eurozone not being one economic area.
2/3 have nothing to do with ordinary people. the first one is indirectly related to people/voters, but keep in mind that none of the governments' decisions throughout the decades has been directly voted from people (at least in greece). so no real responsibility for people (i have read your opinion about it in previous pages, so no need to rewrite anything), wrong numbers and statistics is not people's problem. none of us is rich, 99% of us lives a normal live (most with high debts or no job or no money at all to feed their children).
i would also write a couple paragraphs about the failure of economics as a science, but it's quite irrelevant at this point/topic. however i am still waiting for a viable/longterm solution from this science in order to resolve current and future crisis. and please don't refer to work-until-your-80s, flexible-part-time-contracts, higher-taxes, lower-wages, no-pensions or kill/eliminate/enslave-whole-nations, etc as possible solutions, because these are solutions for the strong economies and pockets only.
- the irresponsible behavior of governments, who maintain a high debt rate,
- the lack of regulation in the bank system, and
- the failing of the euro system, due to the eurozone not being one economic area.
2/3 have nothing to do with ordinary people. the first one is indirectly related to people/voters, but keep in mind that none of the governments' decisions throughout the decades has been directly voted from people (at least in greece). so no real responsibility for people (i have read your opinion about it in previous pages, so no need to rewrite anything), wrong numbers and statistics is not people's problem. none of us is rich, 99% of us lives a normal live (most with high debts or no job or no money at all to feed their children).
i would also write a couple paragraphs about the failure of economics as a science, but it's quite irrelevant at this point/topic. however i am still waiting for a viable/longterm solution from this science in order to resolve current and future crisis. and please don't refer to work-until-your-80s, flexible-part-time-contracts, higher-taxes, lower-wages, no-pensions or kill/eliminate/enslave-whole-nations, etc as possible solutions, because these are solutions for the strong economies and pockets only.
And now a serious comment, or is this it?
I used to have this signature, if I can .. (sokker doesnt allow it)
"All is just about people."
"All is just about people."
i would also write a couple paragraphs about the failure of economics as a science, but it's quite irrelevant at this point/topic. however i am still waiting for a viable/longterm solution from this science in order to resolve current and future crisis. and please don't refer to work-until-your-80s, flexible-part-time-contracts, higher-taxes, lower-wages, no-pensions or kill/eliminate/enslave-whole-nations, etc as possible solutions, because these are solutions for the strong economies and pockets only.
I agree.
In facts:
1- economy is NOT a science!
It can be described as a language we try to use to express reality of economics, but it has not rules in itself as phisics (for example)
2- solution purposes for those crisis are always the same. the entire price is to be paid by normal people/worker/pensioned in terms of money, less services etc.
BUT those purposes NEVER worked in past. And won't work in future! (try to find AN example if you think I'm wrong)
I agree.
In facts:
1- economy is NOT a science!
It can be described as a language we try to use to express reality of economics, but it has not rules in itself as phisics (for example)
2- solution purposes for those crisis are always the same. the entire price is to be paid by normal people/worker/pensioned in terms of money, less services etc.
BUT those purposes NEVER worked in past. And won't work in future! (try to find AN example if you think I'm wrong)
italian bond 10y around 6.5 % now...
( vs around 3.x% for France and 2.x % for Germany )
Euro now going fast in the wall.
( vs around 3.x% for France and 2.x % for Germany )
Euro now going fast in the wall.
1- economy is NOT a science!
It can be described as a language we try to use to express reality of economics, but it has not rules in itself as phisics (for example)
LMAO
It can be described as a language we try to use to express reality of economics, but it has not rules in itself as phisics (for example)
LMAO
whats LMAO at this post? I am an economist and I totally agree with el pupe´s post. The greatest mistake of modern people is trying to explain dynamic society behavior by using static mathematical models...
You can find a few Nobel Prize categories in modern science branches: Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, Literature, and Peace, but there isn´t any category for economy awarded by Swedish Academy of Science.
What people generally call Nobel Prize in Economics is just Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel.
Why? Because even Alfred Nobel didn´t realized Economy as a science discipline.
You can find a few Nobel Prize categories in modern science branches: Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, Literature, and Peace, but there isn´t any category for economy awarded by Swedish Academy of Science.
What people generally call Nobel Prize in Economics is just Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel.
Why? Because even Alfred Nobel didn´t realized Economy as a science discipline.
economics is a social science
it starts from the basis of a social thinking, eg: free markert is the best option ( capitalism) or state economy gives more social justice ( communism)
But uses an exact science , the maths, to prove this previous social thinking
so tis not a exact science neither a social one, but a mix of this two
it starts from the basis of a social thinking, eg: free markert is the best option ( capitalism) or state economy gives more social justice ( communism)
But uses an exact science , the maths, to prove this previous social thinking
so tis not a exact science neither a social one, but a mix of this two
no, you can use math also physics and we will not say that physics is not a science....
economy is a science, it use math but economics have some own rules, math can give you just result.
economy is a science, it use math but economics have some own rules, math can give you just result.
if economy is a science you can do prediction with it about what is going to happen..
but nobody's able to do it.
the point we miss is economy hasn't its rules, but takes it mechanisms from the rules it find.
a simple example:
can a communism economy run with same working as a capitalistic one? no it can't.
the first answer we can unserstand from it is that Economy's "LAWS" depend on the rules that is found.
So economy's rules are not "natural" rules to find, but something we must CHOOSE by politics, to have a desired result!!!
but nobody's able to do it.
the point we miss is economy hasn't its rules, but takes it mechanisms from the rules it find.
a simple example:
can a communism economy run with same working as a capitalistic one? no it can't.
the first answer we can unserstand from it is that Economy's "LAWS" depend on the rules that is found.
So economy's rules are not "natural" rules to find, but something we must CHOOSE by politics, to have a desired result!!!