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Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems
Let's look at it from this point:
Who voted the government which let all this misery happen to Greece until they noticed they had to do something?
Greece is a democratic country. That means the population can influence its development by voting. If they feel no party is able to do what they want, they should create a new one.
Who voted the government which let all this misery happen to Greece until they noticed they had to do something?
Greece is a democratic country. That means the population can influence its development by voting. If they feel no party is able to do what they want, they should create a new one.
Agree with Rubinho.
And as far as I know you have to accept those measures to get money from outside.
There are always innocent people who suffer, but to me it also looks inevitable that the unemployment rate will increase and that it'll have some negative effects on most - if not all - Greeks.
And as far as I know you have to accept those measures to get money from outside.
There are always innocent people who suffer, but to me it also looks inevitable that the unemployment rate will increase and that it'll have some negative effects on most - if not all - Greeks.
Indeed. It's a democracy, so the whole country has to suffer for the mistakes of the people they've elected.
Hungary had to do it 1.5 years ago, but our numbers weren't so bad than the Greek ones now. And we aren't out of the problems yet.
i am working with 1000 euros per month. most of my friends work with 700 euros pes month, an average of 400 euros per month goes to house rent, about 150 to gas and all the other to overprices everyday goods. so you are suggesting that such ordinary people should pay the bill (of the crisis) or maybe all huge greek companies with high profits in 2010?
do you suggest that retired workers should "enjoy" a reduction in their wages, or those making a fortune with black money should be put in jail and pay for all the money they stole from greek governement?
you are comparing an ideal country such as belgium, or the other guy from switzerland, with greece, who pays every year trillions of euros for army expenses because of its neighbours (and they do so), which pays trillions of euros for immigrants and etc etc etc.
and anyway, this crisis is not a result of greek debt. every country in this world has debt (some have bigger that greece). this is a global political and economical game in order some business and banks and golden boys (like Soros) to earn billions of dollars. so from that point, these measures are stupid and useless. in 3 years, we ll be in tha same situation asking for help and money from IMF. should we get more taxes by then as well? :\
and last but not least, although you study economics and you live in a rich country, you should show some kind of humanity and do not only condider greeks as numbers, but as humans with lifes and families. and if such people lose their jobs because of these measures and the whole-crisis-game, what should they do? how would they feed their families?
do you suggest that retired workers should "enjoy" a reduction in their wages, or those making a fortune with black money should be put in jail and pay for all the money they stole from greek governement?
you are comparing an ideal country such as belgium, or the other guy from switzerland, with greece, who pays every year trillions of euros for army expenses because of its neighbours (and they do so), which pays trillions of euros for immigrants and etc etc etc.
and anyway, this crisis is not a result of greek debt. every country in this world has debt (some have bigger that greece). this is a global political and economical game in order some business and banks and golden boys (like Soros) to earn billions of dollars. so from that point, these measures are stupid and useless. in 3 years, we ll be in tha same situation asking for help and money from IMF. should we get more taxes by then as well? :\
and last but not least, although you study economics and you live in a rich country, you should show some kind of humanity and do not only condider greeks as numbers, but as humans with lifes and families. and if such people lose their jobs because of these measures and the whole-crisis-game, what should they do? how would they feed their families?
That's because the economic recession is not over yet.
Indeed. It's a democracy, so the whole country has to suffer for the mistakes of the people they've elected.
you are missing something dude.
not the whole country suffers these mistakes. some people in greece still make billions. this is the problem and this is the reason of tomorrow strike. this is not democracy.
you are missing something dude.
not the whole country suffers these mistakes. some people in greece still make billions. this is the problem and this is the reason of tomorrow strike. this is not democracy.
The problem is that Greece has paid more to the retired people and the public servants than the possible amount. That's why your country's debt is high - part of the money is in your pockets (and part of it is in the corrupt politicians' pockets of course). There are two parallel ways to correct that: pay less for the people and cut back the high tax evasion to collect more money from taxes. Both of them has to be done...
And because our system is still flawed and we have to do some reforms... and it'll hurt. Of course the Hungarian people won't accept this easy - so I think there'll be some interesting news from Budapest in the near future :D
Okay, I have some remarks on your text: ( I'm sorry for the long text, but this is an interesting conversation )
1. Yes, I think those peoples you're talking about in the beginning ( 1000 EUR a month ) should pay for the debt too, but as all taxes are in percentages, rich have to pay more. And there are even progressive taxes ( used in almost every European country I think ), so rich even have to pay a higher percentage.
2. Belgium an ideal country? You must be kidding, right? First of all, for the 5th time in 3 years, the leader of the biggest party of our country has resigned, three times as our prime minister. So we basically don't have a working government for three years now. This in a time of economic crisis is far from ideal. Secondly, Belgium is a paradise for tax evaders. Our Ministry of Finance is working very very badly, ask OECD about it.
3. Trillions of euros for army expenses? Jeez, Greece must be a rich country, as the United States Army's total budget is $ 663.8 billion for 2010 ...
4. Indeed, the crisis is not caused by the Greek, but due to a bad Greek government and the financial crisis, the situation in Greece is worse than in the rest of Europe. Of course you can't blame the Greek citizens, but you can even less blame the European citizens, can you? Someone has to pay for the debt, and it won't be Belgians, Spaniards or Estonians, it will be ( logically ) the Greek.
5. I know some kind of humanity, but in the current climate of economic recession, the 'global' ( global in the meaning of total, not of the world ) economy is more important than individuals or families. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. You have to put your emotions in a closet, and close the door very well, maybe you should even throw the key away.
6. Now I'd like to hear your plan to solve the gigantic problems you're having in your wonderful country ( I really like Greece, as I'm highly interested in economics and politics, but most of all in history ).
1. Yes, I think those peoples you're talking about in the beginning ( 1000 EUR a month ) should pay for the debt too, but as all taxes are in percentages, rich have to pay more. And there are even progressive taxes ( used in almost every European country I think ), so rich even have to pay a higher percentage.
2. Belgium an ideal country? You must be kidding, right? First of all, for the 5th time in 3 years, the leader of the biggest party of our country has resigned, three times as our prime minister. So we basically don't have a working government for three years now. This in a time of economic crisis is far from ideal. Secondly, Belgium is a paradise for tax evaders. Our Ministry of Finance is working very very badly, ask OECD about it.
3. Trillions of euros for army expenses? Jeez, Greece must be a rich country, as the United States Army's total budget is $ 663.8 billion for 2010 ...
4. Indeed, the crisis is not caused by the Greek, but due to a bad Greek government and the financial crisis, the situation in Greece is worse than in the rest of Europe. Of course you can't blame the Greek citizens, but you can even less blame the European citizens, can you? Someone has to pay for the debt, and it won't be Belgians, Spaniards or Estonians, it will be ( logically ) the Greek.
5. I know some kind of humanity, but in the current climate of economic recession, the 'global' ( global in the meaning of total, not of the world ) economy is more important than individuals or families. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. You have to put your emotions in a closet, and close the door very well, maybe you should even throw the key away.
6. Now I'd like to hear your plan to solve the gigantic problems you're having in your wonderful country ( I really like Greece, as I'm highly interested in economics and politics, but most of all in history ).
Braking news from Budapest: a second ( after 1956 ) Hungarian Revolution has started ... ;-)
By the way, can I ask you ( this is not an attempt to insult you in any way ) what studies you've done? And even more interesting, what your political direction is?
I can say mine: you know I've been studying economics for two years at Leuven University now, and my political opinion ( besides Flemish nationalism, but that doesn't matter in this context ) is conservative liberalism.
(edited)
I can say mine: you know I've been studying economics for two years at Leuven University now, and my political opinion ( besides Flemish nationalism, but that doesn't matter in this context ) is conservative liberalism.
(edited)