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Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems
I am not advocate/supporter of current financial tools (especially that tools which allow you to create money from nothing) but this is just one part of problem. Second are "users"...
btw...what do you think, Italy dont have so huge debt problem, cos Italy has bigger economy and much more property (at least several tons of gold) but question.... will they be able to solve their problem by selling some of property or gold in the worst scenario or they will rather take down euro and whole EU ?
our public debt is impossible to be paid.
Our choice (really our?) is to keep paying interests or no...
Our choice (really our?) is to keep paying interests or no...
you have enough state property and gold... so it is possible el pupe :-)
1900 billion euro ...
who has this amount of money to spend in italian properties (most of wich are protected for arts or historical safety)
who has this amount of money to spend in italian properties (most of wich are protected for arts or historical safety)
Throw Berlusconi to the lions at Colloseum and sell his property then. ;P
''guardian''
The European Union has always had problems with democracy, a messy process that can interfere with the grand designs of people at the top who know best. When Ireland voted no to the Nice Treaty, it was told to come up with the right result in a second ballot. The European Central Bank wields immense power, but nobody knows how the unelected members of its governing council vote because no minutes of meetings are published. That said, the latest phase of Europe's sovereign debt crisis has exposed the quite flagrant contempt for voters, the people who are going to bear the full weight of the austerity programmes being cooked up by the political elites.
Here's how things work. The real decisions in Europe are now taken by the Frankfurt Group, an unelected cabal made of up eight people: Lagarde; Merkel; Sarkozy; Mario Draghi, the new president of the ECB; José Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission; Jean-Claude Juncker, chairman of the Eurogroup; Herman van Rompuy, the president of the European Council; and Olli Rehn, Europe's economic and monetary affairs commissioner.
This group, which is accountable to no one, calls the shots in Europe. The cabal decides whether Greece should be allowed to hold a referendum and if and when Athens should get the next tranche of its bailout cash. What matters to this group is what the financial markets think not what voters might want. To the extent that governments had any power, it has been removed and placed in the hands of the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF. It is as if the democratic clock has been turned back to the days when France was ruled by the Bourbons.
In the circumstances, it is hardly surprising that electorates have resorted to general strikes and street protests to have their say. Governments come and go but the policies remain the same, creating a glaring democratic deficit. This would be deeply troubling even if it could be shown that the Frankfurt Group's economic remedies were working, which they are not. Instead, the insistence on ever more austerity is pushing Europe's weaker countries into an economic death spiral while their voters are being bypassed. That is a dangerous mixture.
The European Union has always had problems with democracy, a messy process that can interfere with the grand designs of people at the top who know best. When Ireland voted no to the Nice Treaty, it was told to come up with the right result in a second ballot. The European Central Bank wields immense power, but nobody knows how the unelected members of its governing council vote because no minutes of meetings are published. That said, the latest phase of Europe's sovereign debt crisis has exposed the quite flagrant contempt for voters, the people who are going to bear the full weight of the austerity programmes being cooked up by the political elites.
Here's how things work. The real decisions in Europe are now taken by the Frankfurt Group, an unelected cabal made of up eight people: Lagarde; Merkel; Sarkozy; Mario Draghi, the new president of the ECB; José Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission; Jean-Claude Juncker, chairman of the Eurogroup; Herman van Rompuy, the president of the European Council; and Olli Rehn, Europe's economic and monetary affairs commissioner.
This group, which is accountable to no one, calls the shots in Europe. The cabal decides whether Greece should be allowed to hold a referendum and if and when Athens should get the next tranche of its bailout cash. What matters to this group is what the financial markets think not what voters might want. To the extent that governments had any power, it has been removed and placed in the hands of the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF. It is as if the democratic clock has been turned back to the days when France was ruled by the Bourbons.
In the circumstances, it is hardly surprising that electorates have resorted to general strikes and street protests to have their say. Governments come and go but the policies remain the same, creating a glaring democratic deficit. This would be deeply troubling even if it could be shown that the Frankfurt Group's economic remedies were working, which they are not. Instead, the insistence on ever more austerity is pushing Europe's weaker countries into an economic death spiral while their voters are being bypassed. That is a dangerous mixture.
This group, which is accountable to no one, calls the shots in Europe.
What the hell does this sentence mean? Who should be calling the shots then? Greek rebels in the streets? And Guardian is supposed to be a reputable newspaper... The media in democracy are the worst. Not the politicians.
The cabal decides whether Greece should be allowed to hold a referendum...
Now how malevolent must you be to write such a sentence. They don't decide that. That's a plain lie. Greece government decides about the referendum. But then Greece is simply not getting any more cash it desperately needs if they do. Papandreu actually tricked Merkel, Sarkozy et al. and I am surprised they even gave another chance to Greece after such a clown stunt.
..and if and when Athens should get the next tranche of its bailout cash.
Of course they do. It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it. I would like to see that lying journalist how he would have handled such mind-boggling issues.
What the hell does this sentence mean? Who should be calling the shots then? Greek rebels in the streets? And Guardian is supposed to be a reputable newspaper... The media in democracy are the worst. Not the politicians.
The cabal decides whether Greece should be allowed to hold a referendum...
Now how malevolent must you be to write such a sentence. They don't decide that. That's a plain lie. Greece government decides about the referendum. But then Greece is simply not getting any more cash it desperately needs if they do. Papandreu actually tricked Merkel, Sarkozy et al. and I am surprised they even gave another chance to Greece after such a clown stunt.
..and if and when Athens should get the next tranche of its bailout cash.
Of course they do. It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it. I would like to see that lying journalist how he would have handled such mind-boggling issues.
title changed according request. The topic is dedicated to wider issues than just Greece
For some reason I find it interesting that its southern countries which experience such problems, and I think its thefact that they have more sun and warm weather, it makes you lazy.
thats why Spain has an empire when you were on... on where as a country?
or thats why in California, another warm place, they are poor as hell..
thats bs
No, your theory is bs and your both examples suck.
Spain's glorious history within Europe was determined primarily by its size and not mentality.
Furthermore, California is one of the 2 centers of bipolarised US (the other being NY) centers of power of which both concentrate US wealth. Also, considering poor Gini coefficient in the US simmilar to that of Central Africa's countries, you can all imagine how rich Americans concentrating in NY and LA areas boost those areas' income per capita. And these people are usually not Californians with California mentality so that's why your theory doesn't work. Being a Californian citizen is not really a nation with its own mentality as US have only 5 centuries of history combined with extremely high mobility of people within USA. USA is a melting pot of too many nations with different mentalities.
And stil, everybody knows that people in California take it easy while the Newyorkers are the tough ones. The climate influences people's mentality very much. That's a fact.
(edited)
Spain's glorious history within Europe was determined primarily by its size and not mentality.
Furthermore, California is one of the 2 centers of bipolarised US (the other being NY) centers of power of which both concentrate US wealth. Also, considering poor Gini coefficient in the US simmilar to that of Central Africa's countries, you can all imagine how rich Americans concentrating in NY and LA areas boost those areas' income per capita. And these people are usually not Californians with California mentality so that's why your theory doesn't work. Being a Californian citizen is not really a nation with its own mentality as US have only 5 centuries of history combined with extremely high mobility of people within USA. USA is a melting pot of too many nations with different mentalities.
And stil, everybody knows that people in California take it easy while the Newyorkers are the tough ones. The climate influences people's mentality very much. That's a fact.
(edited)
just use/sell your gold and state industry and property to make your debt on level maybe 80% and than force your people work till 65 y.o. with poor pension and you will have kredit balance in state budget :-)
so explain why Spain and Italy are one of the biggest economys in the planet even having warm climate....yeah we are poorer than nordic or germanic natiions..but richer than your nation or than every eastern european nation, wich has coldest climate
so yout theory about the climate is just insane :)
so yout theory about the climate is just insane :)
The climate influences people's mentality very much. That's a fact.
tha can be true...but saying its an economic law is crazy
siberia cold and poor. Noeway cold and rich
guatemala poor and heat, california heat and rich ( even with that melting post you asked about )
(edited)
tha can be true...but saying its an economic law is crazy
siberia cold and poor. Noeway cold and rich
guatemala poor and heat, california heat and rich ( even with that melting post you asked about )
(edited)
Italians will reply: "Va' fa Napoli!. We will keep both our gold and your money. And send us your women too so we have something to do over here." :D