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Subject: »PIIGS - economics problems
STOP THIS PROPAGANDA!THATS ENOUGH.germany has 10 times more debt than GREECE.Italy tha same.But from a lot of time ago they were hiding their debts.Germany owns to Greece 700 billion euros and nobody says something.Greece has the most small debt in Europe.Greece will pay his debt but noone can come to my coyntry and forced me to do he want.And i will not pay overtaxes from the money we took from europe but the real debt and not fake overtaxes..of the debt..Also no Germany and not other country will force Greece to do what they want to do and cut wages to old people and other anti social meters,.RUBINHO the crise will come to you also.And you didnt know it yet!
Trololol.
Trololol.
you know greg better... can you ask him if I can have plus now and pay later ? I want have it, but you know, that problems with money are not my problems, so if he can lend me plus it would be great....
After some time, the worst case is that I will not pay him for plus, but it will not be my fault, he shouldn't do it, it will be mistake of whole plus system !!! :-) and if he delete my account I will go for strike !
After some time, the worst case is that I will not pay him for plus, but it will not be my fault, he shouldn't do it, it will be mistake of whole plus system !!! :-) and if he delete my account I will go for strike !
I like to see that I am not the only one troll here :-DDDD
Go for sleep we said..junior...and go drink your milk..
sorry, but I am adult and I still like milk and what :-) ?
;-)
go further....make your non-sk friend make the plus loan for you, in that case he won't be able to delete your account because you won't be responsible at all! ;)
go further....make your non-sk friend make the plus loan for you, in that case he won't be able to delete your account because you won't be responsible at all! ;)
Actually current democracy is already a limited one [we don't really have an impact on the decisions made by the governments], but my idea is to have a democracy in which you have to pass a certain test to be able to vote.
I used to like that kind of limited democracy too. Until I though by myself: how can you morally or ethically expect from someone to follow the laws of the country he was born and living in if he has no power at all to make the laws. Of course you can expect this (by saying you'll execute the guy if he doesn't follow the law for instance) but can you expect this morally? My answer is no. This doesn't apply to foreigners (they chose to come here given the law that exists) or people who lose their political rights (due to not following certain laws).
I'm in favor of more democracy and not an even more limited one than we have today. Let the people chose for important things. Make a European democracy: make real European parties and not the ones we currently have, they are just a coalition of existing national parties. So make a European socialist, liberal, conservative, ... list (with people from all countries in EU) and then have real European elections. It would increase the democratic legitimacy of the European decisions made.
@ EVLOGHTOS: not bad for a junior, ain't it?
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I used to like that kind of limited democracy too. Until I though by myself: how can you morally or ethically expect from someone to follow the laws of the country he was born and living in if he has no power at all to make the laws. Of course you can expect this (by saying you'll execute the guy if he doesn't follow the law for instance) but can you expect this morally? My answer is no. This doesn't apply to foreigners (they chose to come here given the law that exists) or people who lose their political rights (due to not following certain laws).
I'm in favor of more democracy and not an even more limited one than we have today. Let the people chose for important things. Make a European democracy: make real European parties and not the ones we currently have, they are just a coalition of existing national parties. So make a European socialist, liberal, conservative, ... list (with people from all countries in EU) and then have real European elections. It would increase the democratic legitimacy of the European decisions made.
@ EVLOGHTOS: not bad for a junior, ain't it?
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I understand what you mean. :) But agreements, treaties, etc between countries is something completely different then applying Ethics.
A country in international law is a legal entity, and agreements can be made between legal entities.
(Besides that there is a lot of trust involved as well.)
Applying moral values to a country is the same as applying them to a chair.
It just does not make sense, not matter how you define "country", in the end it are people who make the decisions and take the actions to which we can apply moral value.
If you just say "country" you are not pointing out the people who, accoring to you, made the decisions or took the action. In every country this can be different (e.g. "President of national bank" or "Government parties" or "Prime Minister and secrateries")
On the other hand, I can understand that for discussion sake you use "country" , but specially in these discussions it should really be about the people involved.
A country in international law is a legal entity, and agreements can be made between legal entities.
(Besides that there is a lot of trust involved as well.)
Applying moral values to a country is the same as applying them to a chair.
It just does not make sense, not matter how you define "country", in the end it are people who make the decisions and take the actions to which we can apply moral value.
If you just say "country" you are not pointing out the people who, accoring to you, made the decisions or took the action. In every country this can be different (e.g. "President of national bank" or "Government parties" or "Prime Minister and secrateries")
On the other hand, I can understand that for discussion sake you use "country" , but specially in these discussions it should really be about the people involved.
Not bad but you show all the theories by your own view.You must read first history.For example at oUR GREEK MACEDONIA.And for example who owes to greece a lof of money like Greece owes its debt to Europe.And who stole money and gold from Greece by past..And who all the time ask a piece of Land..or name or something elese during the History...from Greece.Which counrties all the time dont like peace and which they want peace and they care only about their land and not other countries..
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Not bad but you show all the theories by your own view.You must read first history.For example at oUR GREEK MACEDONIA.And for example who owes to greece a lof of money like Greece owes hid debt.And who stole money and gold from Greece.And who all the time ask a pieace of Land..or name or something elese during the History...
Oh no, the Germans, the French, the Austrians, the Spaniards and the Dutch, they all ruled over our region and took wealth from us. Can we ask that back? No. Just like you can't (well, you can, but you'll get nowhere) ask your gold back from who took it. There is a difference between history and presence. You just try to mask the irresponsible behavior of your politicians (that you Greeks have elected) by making ridiculous claims. Go ahead, but once again, you'll fail. Like your government did.
Oh no, the Germans, the French, the Austrians, the Spaniards and the Dutch, they all ruled over our region and took wealth from us. Can we ask that back? No. Just like you can't (well, you can, but you'll get nowhere) ask your gold back from who took it. There is a difference between history and presence. You just try to mask the irresponsible behavior of your politicians (that you Greeks have elected) by making ridiculous claims. Go ahead, but once again, you'll fail. Like your government did.
oF COURSE greek people have responsibility for giving his votes to that criminal club named PASOK of Papandreou.Not me(never i gave vote to that man and his club)!But during 25 years Pasok didnt made some good thing for Greece.Even to the terrorism 17N AND ΕΛΑ i think Pasok was giving food...to that terrorists..and also..that goverments of Pasok and the family PAPANDREOU were trators and they went Greece to that bad point.But before that goverment be elected Papandreou said to Greek peoplE the phrases:''WE HAVE MONEY!WE HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.We have a lot of money for people and we can go Greece very high.And make a big produce to our country!And we have dream for our country''.
But Greek people is the last time that believed the lies of that club called PASOK AND his chief Papandreou.Here in Greece all people say that Papandreou is an ethnic trator because he want to give land from Greece..to other people.
So Greek people will not eat more lies from Politicians.But we will not give our sovereignty το anyone..
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But Greek people is the last time that believed the lies of that club called PASOK AND his chief Papandreou.Here in Greece all people say that Papandreou is an ethnic trator because he want to give land from Greece..to other people.
So Greek people will not eat more lies from Politicians.But we will not give our sovereignty το anyone..
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You have to get your facts straight. You refer to absolute debt. You should look at debt relative to GDP.
In this statistic, Greece has the worst position in Europe by a mile. (143% or even more by now. Compared to at most 120% for other EU member states (Italy)).
But even if you look at absolute debt figures, Greece does not have the lowest debt in Europe. Slightly larger states, like Belgium and The Netherlands, which have a way higher GDP, have less absolute debt than Greece. Sorry, your claim here is just not true.
You claim to be paying over-taxes, whereas the tax income relative to GDP is relatively low in Greece, compared to "healthier" European countries. Your taxes are currently 5-10% below average. (33% of GDP tax income in Greece compared to 40% in The Netherlands and Germany, 42% in Italy, and even 46% in Belgium and France.)
In this statistic, Greece has the worst position in Europe by a mile. (143% or even more by now. Compared to at most 120% for other EU member states (Italy)).
But even if you look at absolute debt figures, Greece does not have the lowest debt in Europe. Slightly larger states, like Belgium and The Netherlands, which have a way higher GDP, have less absolute debt than Greece. Sorry, your claim here is just not true.
You claim to be paying over-taxes, whereas the tax income relative to GDP is relatively low in Greece, compared to "healthier" European countries. Your taxes are currently 5-10% below average. (33% of GDP tax income in Greece compared to 40% in The Netherlands and Germany, 42% in Italy, and even 46% in Belgium and France.)
Yes the economy of German is better but also has ten times bigger debt than Greece.So when will Germany will pay out its debt?At year 2300?come on...get serious.You dont speak to some junior.For Greece that debt is very low if Greece start to mining its mineral wealth.Only the 5% our mineral wealth of aegean Pelagus and Ionion Pelagus and other parts of Greece its enough to pay all the debt.German and other countries knows that and want to participate and to take a peace of our land and of our mineral wealth that is the bigger in world!Only the price of mineral wealth of Ionion pelagus has value over than 1500 billion euros...Enough money to for Greece to pay out its debt and to become the stronger country at economy.ONLY THE MINERAL WEALTH ONLY FROM one part of Greece the Ionion Pelagus.Then..we have mineral wealth to AEGEAN to Thraki and other places..If some serius politician decide to cooperate with a strong country like Israil for mining his own mineral wealth Greece will become the stronger country.Of course we dont want to have debt.We want to give all the money back tha we have took!;)
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Just one question, if you have so many resources...why didn't you start mining them earlier?