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Subject: »Gaza sea convoy incident
The holocaust was horrible absolute, but slowly it`s time to find some other reasons. Here in Germany it isn`t possible to speak about the holocaust in a very sensible way when one word sounds not like the jewish Germans want to hear Germany is the bad beast again.
The Situation in Gaza is against all human rights, sure there is a great problem but Israel didn`do all it can too keep peace or to develop new ways e.g. the new villages.
And here is the point not if there are some Idiots that did not belive in holocaust, and today a war human gesture was brutally defeated by idiotic israeli hardliner.
The Situation in Gaza is against all human rights, sure there is a great problem but Israel didn`do all it can too keep peace or to develop new ways e.g. the new villages.
And here is the point not if there are some Idiots that did not belive in holocaust, and today a war human gesture was brutally defeated by idiotic israeli hardliner.
I doubt Palestines have better propaganda then the Knesset :) And e.g. I think there are quite some jewish (allow me to link them to pro-israel ideas) people in Europe.
I read what you write before .
We do make mistakes, sometimes big mistakes.
All countries make mistakes and this is true .
I will answer to you with something which doesn't fit with all this .
Why Kypros is occupied?
Why U.N. doesn't do anything for this ? (this goes to someone else who said about U.N.)
There are less than 6 milions ...
An other real story : Some friends of mine are from Israel and told me about a bombing attack in a cafeteria ...
Bad thing happened from both sides
The solution isn't easy if you ask my opinion .
We do make mistakes, sometimes big mistakes.
All countries make mistakes and this is true .
I will answer to you with something which doesn't fit with all this .
Why Kypros is occupied?
Why U.N. doesn't do anything for this ? (this goes to someone else who said about U.N.)
There are less than 6 milions ...
An other real story : Some friends of mine are from Israel and told me about a bombing attack in a cafeteria ...
Bad thing happened from both sides
The solution isn't easy if you ask my opinion .
this discussion is quite funny. I am reading into the complexity of social identities.
About how some people have a tendency to keep a more complex conceptualisation of the social structure in their environment and how it relates to certain individual differences.
"A less complex representation of social groups can be induced by the feeling of ingroup threat, because it brings stress (which lowers the attention that is given to pheripheral characteristics) and because it raises the salience of the threatened ingroup relative to that of other ingroups (meaning that you feel more isreali when you're being told that israel is under a threat)"
Also "a high social complexity goes together with high uncertainty, a lower social complexity brings less uncertainty"
I can understand that living under such conditions for such a long time brings with it a blanket of security in that you all pull together against a certain enemy. It reduces the uncertainty that other people who have to live amongst cultural differences, and gives you all some sort of purpose in life (if only to stay alive as giving the finger to all who opposes your group). It must be difficult to let go of that secure blanket. But the only other alternative is to continue living under the feeling of a threat which mostly is there because you all want it there.
About how some people have a tendency to keep a more complex conceptualisation of the social structure in their environment and how it relates to certain individual differences.
"A less complex representation of social groups can be induced by the feeling of ingroup threat, because it brings stress (which lowers the attention that is given to pheripheral characteristics) and because it raises the salience of the threatened ingroup relative to that of other ingroups (meaning that you feel more isreali when you're being told that israel is under a threat)"
Also "a high social complexity goes together with high uncertainty, a lower social complexity brings less uncertainty"
I can understand that living under such conditions for such a long time brings with it a blanket of security in that you all pull together against a certain enemy. It reduces the uncertainty that other people who have to live amongst cultural differences, and gives you all some sort of purpose in life (if only to stay alive as giving the finger to all who opposes your group). It must be difficult to let go of that secure blanket. But the only other alternative is to continue living under the feeling of a threat which mostly is there because you all want it there.
that's my only feeling and this is the reason I say maybe :)
I guess its our governmental propaganda that make the deference as it sucks, beside the fact that we are democracy and allow the media to publish almost everything unlike most of our neighbor.
I guess its our governmental propaganda that make the deference as it sucks, beside the fact that we are democracy and allow the media to publish almost everything unlike most of our neighbor.
UN is one big joke. Now they'll say to Israel 'Naughty naughty country, dont do that again' and 'naughty naughty hamas, you shouldnt provoke!' They (UN) are failing both in Kypros, Israel, Africa, ...
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The Situation in Gaza is against all human rights because they don't give human rights to Gilad Shalit and because they shoot missile on civilian in Israel .
They live so much better before that
Believe me we just want peace and a little state to the Jews
They live so much better before that
Believe me we just want peace and a little state to the Jews
America will use his veto against the naughy country part.
Because the sole idea of UN is retarded. To react efficiently they would have to start a war. Without a war you cannot stop an aggressive country, true story.
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true, and there are too many veto owners and way too many countries who will disagree.
I'm happy that the UN can't start a war. Irak and afganistan were bad as they were.
Believe me we just want peace and a little state to the Jews
"... but we decide where the borders of that state are going to be."
This exact quote was the answer of the minister of interior affairs when asked why the israeli's didn't want to make peace with the palestines.
"... but we decide where the borders of that state are going to be."
This exact quote was the answer of the minister of interior affairs when asked why the israeli's didn't want to make peace with the palestines.
And you can turn this into a college drinking game: turn on any late night talkshow (which will host a representative of the israeli side, of course) and wait until they say 'unfair' then drink and switch over to the next show. Repeat.
I can't believe what I'm reading here... Some manager that I don't need to mention verified Godwin's law. Click here for further information.
It seems to me, that Israel isn't able to solve any crisis with diplomacy, and keeps using military power instead.
Violence only brings more violence, hatred engenders hatred.
Maybe Israel's government should review their way of acting, cause no peace will be until they change that.
@attack on the boats: it seems to me, that both sides claim self-defense. I can't deny it to any of these side. But I'm wondering how many israeli died during that "operation".
It seems to me, that Israel isn't able to solve any crisis with diplomacy, and keeps using military power instead.
Violence only brings more violence, hatred engenders hatred.
Maybe Israel's government should review their way of acting, cause no peace will be until they change that.
@attack on the boats: it seems to me, that both sides claim self-defense. I can't deny it to any of these side. But I'm wondering how many israeli died during that "operation".
Well I'm not really well informed at the subject[no one on this forum is], but if these information are true, and the video posted before is not a fake:
a) the people managing the help boats refused help and joint operation with Red Cross/Red Crescent
b) any weapon was found
Then the action of Israeli soldiers was fully understandable. When someone is approaching your territory you have the right to stop him. As far as I've read/seen, they tried to stop the convoy at numerous times and clearly said that they will react if this action takes place. And well, if someone isn't reacting at your threats and messages, then you simply have to use force to stop them. We can see at the video, that Israeli soldiers were NOT using killing weapon at the beginning, and the crew of the ship was trying to harm them, maybe even kill them[the guy with the big stick who was hitting the soldier all the time since he approach the board of the ship, those guys who thrown a soldier off the boat]. It's possible that the situation was life-threatening at one point to the Israeli soldiers and it's understandable, that they started defending themselves.
Israel was the defending part, not the attacker in this situation. If there was an unchecked convoy from Germany to Russia or the other way round before the 1939 outbreak of the war I would've thought as a normal step to try to stop it by threats, and when the crew would continue to sail, I would even expect Polish soldiers to get on board of the ship.
I sense that many people are against Israel in this topic and possibly it denies them a clear view on this situation. I'm personally not a big fan of Israel[though Hamas is doing far more damage...] but still, this situation is not a riddle for me. These are typical steps of any country's army when a possibly hostile ship is approaching particular country's territory. That's simply what you do when it happens.
a) the people managing the help boats refused help and joint operation with Red Cross/Red Crescent
b) any weapon was found
Then the action of Israeli soldiers was fully understandable. When someone is approaching your territory you have the right to stop him. As far as I've read/seen, they tried to stop the convoy at numerous times and clearly said that they will react if this action takes place. And well, if someone isn't reacting at your threats and messages, then you simply have to use force to stop them. We can see at the video, that Israeli soldiers were NOT using killing weapon at the beginning, and the crew of the ship was trying to harm them, maybe even kill them[the guy with the big stick who was hitting the soldier all the time since he approach the board of the ship, those guys who thrown a soldier off the boat]. It's possible that the situation was life-threatening at one point to the Israeli soldiers and it's understandable, that they started defending themselves.
Israel was the defending part, not the attacker in this situation. If there was an unchecked convoy from Germany to Russia or the other way round before the 1939 outbreak of the war I would've thought as a normal step to try to stop it by threats, and when the crew would continue to sail, I would even expect Polish soldiers to get on board of the ship.
I sense that many people are against Israel in this topic and possibly it denies them a clear view on this situation. I'm personally not a big fan of Israel[though Hamas is doing far more damage...] but still, this situation is not a riddle for me. These are typical steps of any country's army when a possibly hostile ship is approaching particular country's territory. That's simply what you do when it happens.