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Subject: »Gaza sea convoy incident
I'm not going to say to much about this because I don't want a ban :) But this all isn't really a surprise ... If murdering 900 childeren en women in a couple of days isn't a problem, why should a couple of activists be a problem then.
If you really want to do something, boycott Israel. Don't buy any products with a barcodes that begins with 729.
If you really want to do something, boycott Israel. Don't buy any products with a barcodes that begins with 729.
in international waters
What the .... is this?Who gives them that permission to managing the international waters ? if they was do that operation in their own waters nobody can't say them anything.
What the .... is this?Who gives them that permission to managing the international waters ? if they was do that operation in their own waters nobody can't say them anything.
i'm really wonder what Israeli users have to say about this.
good to hear both sides before making any definitive statements.
good to hear both sides before making any definitive statements.
probably that it was the protesters fault for provoking the isreali militaries and that they deserved it somehow.
N.K vs S.K
We torpedoed them - because we felt like it.
Same for here?
We torpedoed them - because we felt like it.
Same for here?
I guess rather the american way: we attack them before they might do something :)
I agree with Israel to stop the convoy (*). Yet, I disagree on where (international territory) and how. Even if they attack you with metal bars, you can as a trained private, defend yourself without shooting to kill.
(*) I agree when the blocking of Gaza would be legitimate (which is the case in their/Israelian eyes). But personnally I do not agree with this blocking, thus not with the rest of the story
I agree with Israel to stop the convoy (*). Yet, I disagree on where (international territory) and how. Even if they attack you with metal bars, you can as a trained private, defend yourself without shooting to kill.
(*) I agree when the blocking of Gaza would be legitimate (which is the case in their/Israelian eyes). But personnally I do not agree with this blocking, thus not with the rest of the story
i condemn israel because of this affair, and it's really terrible to hear that some volunteer were killed.
i'm sorry for your loss. :(
but before judgment, i have to hear the other opinion too.
as i heard some israeli soldier were damaged too, so maybe the people on board provoked them.
but i'm not sure. i've just read it in newspeaper.
we should wait the result of the investigation.
(edited)
i'm sorry for your loss. :(
but before judgment, i have to hear the other opinion too.
as i heard some israeli soldier were damaged too, so maybe the people on board provoked them.
but i'm not sure. i've just read it in newspeaper.
we should wait the result of the investigation.
(edited)
It's probably not legitimate at all. They're targetting the civilians inside the area with that action.
And still, you'll have a difficult job on justifying how trained militaries can be provoked into an attack that results in killing 10 to 15 civilians, *by accident*. Probably how it is justified to level entire city blocks because a few people shoot fireworks onto your rooftops a few times a day.
It's very difficult to talk about and describe the situation without making the israeli's look like the oppressors within the first two sentences, and to give a veil of neutrality to your own statements, but that doesn't mean you have to ignore or *straighten out* half of what they've done to make it look like a fair ethical discussion. Because it is not.
On one side, you have a state with an army that uses the logic that it can do whatever to protect itself from attacks, and on the same side, you have the people who claim their enemies will stop at nothing to kill them, so they must protect themself (by attacking first). And then you have their politicians who use the logic that whatever they already have and what the other side can't take from them, they have no obligations to give it back.
Further, all of them see it as highly unfair when the other side attempts to use the same logic on them. So no 'state-wise defence' for the palestines, it's certainly very evil for them to retaliate against attacks, and no keeping what they gained through illegal use of force.
(edited)
And still, you'll have a difficult job on justifying how trained militaries can be provoked into an attack that results in killing 10 to 15 civilians, *by accident*. Probably how it is justified to level entire city blocks because a few people shoot fireworks onto your rooftops a few times a day.
It's very difficult to talk about and describe the situation without making the israeli's look like the oppressors within the first two sentences, and to give a veil of neutrality to your own statements, but that doesn't mean you have to ignore or *straighten out* half of what they've done to make it look like a fair ethical discussion. Because it is not.
On one side, you have a state with an army that uses the logic that it can do whatever to protect itself from attacks, and on the same side, you have the people who claim their enemies will stop at nothing to kill them, so they must protect themself (by attacking first). And then you have their politicians who use the logic that whatever they already have and what the other side can't take from them, they have no obligations to give it back.
Further, all of them see it as highly unfair when the other side attempts to use the same logic on them. So no 'state-wise defence' for the palestines, it's certainly very evil for them to retaliate against attacks, and no keeping what they gained through illegal use of force.
(edited)
there should be some videos around somewhere, well they've just showed them on the news and they were definately provoked.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100530/israelis-turkey-avoid-100531/20100531/?hub=TorontoNewHome
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100530/israelis-turkey-avoid-100531/20100531/?hub=TorontoNewHome
Of course they were provoked. Yet, as I said before, soldiers - and especially Israelian soldiers - are trained on how to handle such situations, and just shooting to kill (or do you explain 9 death on 'self defense') was not the way.
That's 1 attack, 19 were killed by trained specialists shooting at activists with live rounds!!
well yes, but they were still severely outnumbered, even if they were trained to deal with it, with the protesters coming at them with knives why take the risk. I'd have shot them in the situation, rather they die than me.