Subject: »Gaza sea convoy incident

I think it is a bit sad how any discussion about israel tends to become a discussion where one side will generalise and add religion into the pot. It is not ISRAEL that did make that incident. It were some army responsables who clearly must have been confused (you never drop your men one by one into a group of 20-40 possibly hostile people). That Israel troops does want to search the boat is understandable, because it would have been possible for it to be weapons as well. Let's just face this as what it is: this men in charge made a mistake by misjudging the situation and killing people. It is not more and not less.

Of course the situation that also "swings" with it is a problem.

Rog wrote this on page 14:
"...and btw, I'm not making excuses. The life of one Israeli soldier is worth the lives of 50000 of our enemies... it's about the equal ratio of population!"

I think that is one of the main problems. Both sides are kneedeep in blood. But things like this idea, that the "enemy" has far more people and casualties do not care, because you yourself feel like the underdog and this gives you the impression that you are allowed to do a lot of things. And in this conflict both sides feel like they are the underdog and think they have nothing to lose.
I just hope some day both sides wake up and realise that this is no future for their children.
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Chuck you brought it on yourself so stop complaining like a little girl.
Your serious questions, or at least the ones you deem to be serious, deserve an answer but it is NOT the issue itself which stopped this discussion. You can pretend to take the higher moral ground but the fact remains that you belittled our discussion partner by ridiculing his replies before he even made them. It's the way ou argue, not your view points.
So please, clam down. You have made no valid point, yet only managed to alienate your discussion partner before getting the answers you wanted.
If you know what I was going to say, then there is no problem for you to continue this discussion by yourself. If not, then you need to change your attitude.
Unless of course you are not really interested in a discussion and only in listening to yourself.

better go send your troops to the horn of afrika then, because both the pirates as european marines do a better job without splattering the ship with blood. And those afrikans won't come all that willingly, I presume.

I seem to remember that other ships had no bloodshed.

And Somalians attacking Colonel Tufton on his cruise boat with his vino and women is about as dangerous as attacking a dinghy full of little children.

I think that is one of the main problems. Both sides are kneedeep in blood. But things like this idea, that the "enemy" has far more people and casualties do not care, because you yourself feel like the underdog gives you the impression you are allowed to do a lot of things. And in this conflict both sides feel like they are the underdog and think they have nothing to lose.
I just hope some day both sides wake up and realise that this is no future for their children.

let's hope so. Because the israeli definition of peace right now is: enemies stop shooting, go back to where we say they have to go back and be merry about it. Basic human psychology says this won't work. Basic politicology says it won't either. Basic israeli mindset says too bad (based on what is said both here and what our biased media shows their politicians are saying). And I'm not saying israel is warmongering per se. I'm just saying they're awfully passive agressive about everybody else.

If you are hated by zionists you know for sure you have choosen the right and human side :)

² as far as i understand the humanitarian helpers had guns which must have provoked the army. I guess things just got out of control.

Let the committee do his work and then we'll see

@ch: you act foolish by posting that pic over and over again
(edited)

Oh God!

My laptop has an intel chip in it!


*Goes to smash laptop with a politically correct hammer'

I asked you a serious question and you worked your way around it. I made a joke, you started crying you wanted to be taken serious. So get serious then and answer the question. No harm intended. If you can't take a joke, stay away from the internet ;)

(edited)

I don't think in any case that is acceptable to kill 9 civilians (and I haven't seen guns in the picture that showed the weapons of the humanitarians) to assail a ship. What kind of wounds did the IDF soldiers have, just out of curiousity. Seems more likely that they shot back out of anger for being opposed than actually defending themself. You know, the kind of anger a bouncer at a club or a bad policeman might show if you show him disrespect. Only with bigger guns and more self-righteousness. But I am guessing.

@RR: good, a comittee can give us the time we need to pretend it didn't happen.
Really, there isn't always a reason there is a middle ground in each case. Sometimes one side did something so grossly out of proportion, it is ridiculous. And then there still will be people who will say it didn't happen.
(edited)

I think that is one of the main problems. Both sides are kneedeep in blood. But things like this idea, that the "enemy" has far more people and casualties do not care, because you yourself feel like the underdog and this gives you the impression that you are allowed to do a lot of things. And in this conflict both sides feel like they are the underdog and think they have nothing to lose.
I just hope some day both sides wake up and realise that this is no future for their children.

both people die and suffer..
both political leaders, companies and army (or militia) make money on it..

the stupid thing is having an enemy...

İ've tried to read first 15 page and similiar things was on these pages.
Maybe the maya's 2012 scenario will happen with 3.world war .

Everyone is know your dreams,aims and what kind of 'Peace' you are trying to bring the World.
You and Your puppets like G.W.Bush .. Keep going like this ,Your Dream will be real and you all chosen
Jewish will go heaven :) this will be like this how the this* God(i dunno what kind of God can say Some Nation is choosen and can kill the others what style of killing they wants ) said to you.
The End is coming closer .. And they will keep doin this kind of things until it come.

For saying Kurdish problems etc. This is your plans' part of Turkey . This problem is not coming from a long history. This cant explain with 3-5 sentences.And My Granpa's also Kurd ..Arap..
This is Turkish Mosaic.But We Are TURKS '

And im so sorry for opening this topic cos They(the soldiers and Jews) did nothing bad it was self defence(like allways ) and all of those 9 people deserved to die .

Something happened, true. Are you 100% sure of what you say

For me everything you say must be stated and as long as things cannot be stated they did not happen.
I can see that what happened is terrible but for the moment the chain of causation seams uncertain to me.

you act foolish by posting that pic over and over again

Oh. As long as I reach as many people as possible it's fine by me, whatever others think of it :)

what would be needed for things to have happened?