Subject: »Gaza sea convoy incident

well yes, but they were still severely outnumbered, even if they were trained to deal with it, with the protesters coming at them with knives why take the risk. I'd have shot them in the situation, rather they die than me.

It are still activists and they didn't need those weapons to kill them. Riotpolice don't kill people even if they are attacked by many more with stones and sticks.

And ofcourse they are somehow armed and ready to defend themselfs.
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And still, you'll have a difficult job on justifying how trained militaries can be provoked into an attack that results in killing 10 to 15 civilians, *by accident*. Probably the same way how you justify leveling entire city blocks because a few people shoot fireworks onto your rooftops a few times a day.
It's very difficult to talk about and describe the situation without making the israeli's look like the oppressors within the first two sentences, and to give a veil of neutrality to your own statements, but that doesn't mean you have to ignore or *straighten out* half of what they've done to make it look like a fair ethical discussion. Because it is not.

On one side, you have a state with an army that uses the logic that it can do whatever to protect itself from attacks, and on the same side, you have the people who claim their enemies will stop at nothing to kill them, so they must protect themself (by attacking first). And then you have their politicians who use the logic that whatever they already have and what the other side can't take from them, they have no obligations to give it back.
Further, all of them see it as highly unfair when the other side attempts to use the same logic on them. So no 'state-wise defence' for the palestines, it's certainly very evil for them to retaliate against attacks, and absolutely no keeping what they gained through illegal use of force.

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I guess we will never know exactly what happend. Self defence or not.
but the presumption is against israel because all this is not an isolated incident.
Israel has since its existance never displayed any respect for human rights.
enough examples: ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem, deliberately destroyed civilian buildings in Gaza, ignoring every UN resolution, and many many more

yes but in a war you can't hesitate.
if you don't react immediately, you might be killed. and you are responsible for other soldier, too!

riot police are there as a unit and are able to retreat if they need to. These guys were coming down from helicopters with nowhere to run/regroup whatever. Sticks and stones thrown from 30/40 yards can easily be deflected by the shields, knives from less than a metre away cant really be defended against with a hand.

since when "civilians" attack soldiers(who used only paintball guns untill they had no other choice) with guns/knifes/bricks/poles.

ill tell you how, most of the people werent "civilians" but violent and trained fighters(some of them linked to hamas) who tried to lynch the soldiers.

moreover the "civilians" refused to give the humanitrian packages to israel( who would bring it to Gaza)
but insisted to provoke instead.

i guess we need to learn from the respect for human rights that belgium showed in africa??
laff
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there you go: the traditional one-two of 'they started it/you did a far worse thing in your country'

(ps: the congolese actually desire to be back under belgian control, but that matter is best left aside..)

All bull! They send in special forces, people trained to kill and when they do their job everyone is surprised. A group of spcialists can easily take over a ship run by a bunch of activists and idealists.

Even then, there are dozens of weapons that can be used but don't kill. It all dependant on the intention they had when they entered that ship (in international waters) ... ! And now everyone can see what the intentions were :S

no

but your country cant criticize anything with all the respect

especially when you are relaying on pro-palestenian propaganda and you dont really know anything.

even somalians can take over a ship without killing the crew. And the israeli special forces are supposed to be one of the best in the world?

soldiers getting lynched as soon as they land on the ship by the "civilians"

you can clearly see at 0:57 that the soldiers are using paintball guns while the "civilains" are trying to lynch and kill them.

at the end of the video you can see the cold weapons that were found on the ship.
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have you seen the video's?

how many weapons do you think they had to hand after abseiling down to the ship? how many of those weapons would get a group of the activists to back off? Just think about it, pepper spray could work on the ones in front but then you're attacked from behind, any hitting thing wouldnt work because there's no room to gain any force and they're already attacking you. You see you're fellow agent being stabbed and beaten up by a group of thugs, if you go over on you're own you'll face the same so you fire at them. It's just logical in the situation.

watch the movie

watch the movie and think what would you do if you were one of those soldiers......

so, what's your point?

this justifies the deaths of a dozen civilians?