Subject: »Gaza sea convoy incident

wowowow the emprisoned soldier was caught by Hamas, they are not humanitarians!!!

quote: okéy very good but why engage the ships in international waters, that's piracy!

There is a legal debate about this issue. It's not a clear case.

But even if it is, I would still ask for honest opinion

From what you see - which side do you suspect intended to cause casualties? Do you think that without stabbing, or beating, or metal rods, or throwing off deck - would there be even a single casualty?
You could then go to court and blame Israel for threspassing or whatever. But no one would have been hurt.

Isrealis celebrating the attack in front of the Turkish Embassy.

(edited)

I did not say this. I said that they do not give a shit for any law, nor mutual respect.

They are not humanitarians, for clearly stating that they want to kill - and they do follow their words

Put aside all the weapons.
If you engage someone in international waters it's an act of piracy. They were just sailing there, the israelian navy went there. So clearly piracy.

I ricochet the question: if the israelians would just have escorted the mission towards the gaza strip and/or asked politely to inspect the cargo would there be even 1 casuality?

That's quite common with extremists that they don't respect laws..

But israel has already a big pile with ignored UN-resolutions. Understand that such kind of things dont help your credibility

it's a support demonstration. This is not a celebration.
You may not agree with it, but in a democratic state, you could find two opposing sides demonstrating without violence.

Do you really want to see celebration for other peoples sufferings? I can bring some

|To your riccochet:

There could have been. Because it would be too close to the Hamas and the clash would have been inevitable.
Israel offered to board the goods in Ashdod (less than 20 km) and drive them to Gaza. The organizers refused.

Therefore Israel tried to contact them on sea, but they refused all calls for peaceful handling of the case. Now, it might be piracy or not, but the bold provocation met determination.

Isreal is a rogue state.

Too close to the Hamas border? I hope u respect their national waters and don't cross it. Hence you would still be at a safe range.

Two wrongs don't make a right you know. What happened was a crime(piracy) and from that moment the chain of causation us unclear to me.
My guess would be that an anxious or a nervous israeli soldier pulled the trigger and his fire was responded with a bloodshed on the end of the chain.

aren't you guys tired of this? the whole day you argue , but what's the effect? NONE!! cause you don't have a F-ING POWER TO INFLUENCE, so lets sit calm and watch what will happen next...

That was never proven so invalid argument..

@ice-tea: with pasivity you reach nothing. A start could be that we, civilians, could reach an accord.
(edited)

i mean for sokker users, having this discussion here will have ZERO effect on further development of this incident. I didn't meant to promote pasiveness here

Jup but at least we feel useful and so our consciousness is satisfied ;)

I don't have to change my opinion to match yours, of course.

You will keep writing for ever that the people on the ship where humanitarians, even though you clearly see that they would lynch other human beings with no hesitation if they had it their way.
Just for fun, I'll bounce the question back to you: you say the israeli's intended no harm, even though you clearly see 9 dead people on the civilian side and non on the IDF side. Yet you claim the humanitarians posed a treat for the soldiers...
You see, we can keep bouncing this question back and forth in infinity. Quite pointless. I had hoped for less support for this 'eye for an eye' judgement.
I don't understand how you can defend these judgements when applied by the IDF, but condemn it when it is used against the IDF.

If the "humanitarians" did not really want to KILL (it takes a ot of hatry to do what you prefer to admit seeing), no one of them would have been hurt. They planned it. They had no peace in their minds, and were not prepared for peaceful actions
Same goes for the IDF

Now for the general situation

There is no organization, nation, country, or community or even the UN that takes active care of Gaza citizens more than Israel


Actually, I would hope so. They're pretty much the only neighbouring country and most of the installations of gaza were destroyed. I'm not laughing.

They however bomb the nearby power station with missiles.
Ok

Food and medical goods come on permanent basis through the border crossings. So is fuel and other materials.
The same crossings are also the gates to export Gaza products to Israel and other markets. Yes - even to the sea port of Ashdod, where the ship parks.

On regular basis, but some say it is only a quarter of minimal needs. Also entrance of building materials is fully restricted.

These crossings are also used for Gaza people to get to Israeli hospitals and get full medical treatment.
Some say it takes a long time, 4 hours to cross once. Plenty of stories of abuse by (bored?) soldiers and accounts of people dying in line while waiting to cross the border to get into the hospital. Difficult disproving those, I admit. But all in all, difficult living conditions, not like the border hopping you'd expect from that description.
Plus, the UN hospital got destroyed in last war.

The only occassions where these crossings are blocked are when the Hamas strikes them.

I never heard a comment from about throwing missiles on civilian cities. Would you do anything different in your country, other than to try and block their weapons supply?
Shooting missiles is bad. I haven't said anything otherwise. It's one of the reasons I had some feelings of support for the blockade. Did the amount of rocket strikes grow less? Because I don't know. Overhere they told that the rockets are pretty much made from fairly accessible materials, so I had some doubts about the effectiveness of the blockade. Plus, that it generates a fair bit of grumblings toward the israeli government, which probably will result in more soldiers for their army (and this is where 'they have every right to use force to defend themself' becomes a problem).

If you want to disscuss rationally and intelligently, I expect that you comment on these points, that might shed some other light on your arguments that seem to me too rigidly pre-opinionated

So far you took the easy way. Every such fact is referred by you as propaganda. Sometimes you are kind to us and say that we are fed with dis-information.

FWIW, I have a lot of criticism on our side as well. However I would share it only with people who seem to be able to mutually share their doubs just as well.

Please share, I've grown tired of discussing our national problems. I want something new.

Quote My guess would be that an anxious or a nervous israeli soldier pulled the trigger and his fire was responded with a bloodshed on the end of the chain.

Let's not twist the picture. Your guess is not as good as mine.
Define anxious please. Is it someone who was stabbed? Beaten almost to death? Thrown off the deck?

Peaceful and humanitarian people would not have added fire to the chain. Six other ships had nop casualties.

If the ships did port in Gaza, then there could have not been a possiblity to peacfully check the contents as you suggested. Do twist my meaning on this one as well