Subject: »Gaza sea convoy incident

arab = liar
different opinion = liar
diverging evidence = propaganda

so, how do you legitimize your opinion, exactly?

Yes, that would also have the conclusion, that every Israeli has to lie about what happened too because they are Israeli and want to strengthen their own position. :(
But it shows the fundamental distrust and hate between both sides.

It seems that you left the skunk while ago and start with the magic mushrooms

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I'm looking for some really good docu's that give a good impression of the terrorstate Israel. Situations about roads, water, land etc etc. all shocking and made by well known organisations, nothing cheap like these video's ...

Something like this docu: Place of Verdict: The new middle east. Unfortunatly site is in dutch but it must be in English also somewhere.
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OMG are you guys serious??

Israel is not without sins but nor are holland, turkey and so many more!!
How do you ever want a reasonable debate if you post bigoted vids like that?
You guys make me sick is that the so famous 'rationality' of the West

Don't blame him, he's a left wing commie bastard :)

Big 2, Israel is far from being without sins, but Palestine is at least as far as Israel. So why blaming only Israel for the conflict ( I disapprove the actions of Israel this week without doubt ) ?

just ignore the two dutch guys. I want to hear some more israeli comments.

20 pages ago, I asked a few nice key questions that never got answered. Seems like a perfect opportunity to show where I am wrong and where israel is right...

Oh, and of course, Hamas is just as bad as israel, of course.
How is Fatah doing these days? They stopped with the terror attacks, did they? How did that happen, all of a sudden?

christian-zionist traitor :)

Imo it's just about trust: Fatah didn't ashame the trust the israelians gave to them which can't be said from Hamas.

How wrong the israelians may have been on this occasion in the past they have tried, multiple times. Remember Camp David, the try of the norwegians,.. Israel is not all bad and at times they react disproportionally but they had their good actions.

Aigytos is a true dutchman :D

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the biggest issue, imo, is the illegal settlements. More than anything else, it gives the palestines (and the rest of the world) the idea that israel can do anything it likes and doens't have to account for its wrongs. This is no basis for real trust.
Second, the terrible living conditions inside the gaza strip, and to a lesser extent the west bank. Living conditions and the economical situation as a whole deteriorated due to israeli interference. This is a slate they'll have to wipe clean before the two countries can go on.

Remember what 'caused' the second WW. The feeding ground of the relentless anti-semtism and the hunger for self-control over the destiny of the own nation came directly through the humiliation of the damages that had to be paid after the first WW. Not the loss of the great war itself, but the economic consequences and the reasons for it that people made, lead to the second great war and to the holocaust.
Because of this, the victors of the second war realised that the only possible way forward, was to rebuild germany's economy. If they had left it in rubble again, a new warlike mentality would have arised very quickly. The union for coal and steel (claiming the rich coal regions was one of the major military targets in each of the previous wars) was the first step of cooperation. Share an economic fate and you share the way both your countries are heading.
IMO, this is the way israel need to go into. Not the one of unilateral action.

Does 'palestine' want this? - the right question is: 'did the nazi-germans want this?' and 'did it happen anyway and not without succes?' (or 'the french'?)
Sometimes you have to go for the ultimate goal, and don't waste effort on the distractions.
And so yes, sometimes the end justifies the means. Depends on what the ends are..