Subject: Intelligent Political Discussion Thread

Unfortunately, Israel has to take the UN seriously, although the UN cannot take pride of really Uniting the Nations.

How many civil right organization operate in Arab coutries? I mean really operating.
Do you know how many Israeli organizations are active here? Do you know that the court system is open for them many times against the government?

Did the UNESCO staff in Gaza, ever report when their supply was snatch by Hamas militants?
Did they complain when Hamas shot rockets from their premises?

Did the red cross pay a visit to Gilad Shalit?
Did the UN ever tried to politelty ask for permission to visit?

Does Israel allow the UN, Red Cross, families, lawyers to meet prisoners that still declare that when they go out they'll not stop activities against Israel?

Does Israel allow goods to enter Gaza?
Was it Israel who attacked the border crossings?

Does Israel provide electricity to Gaza?
Do the Gaza people use electricity to manufacture rockets and dig smuggling tunnels?
Does Hamas shoot the electric power station?

Now, those of you who answer this honestly, please tell me honestly. Even though I truly and genuinly want to have peace, and that I support exhchange of occuppied territories for peace, what would you do if were in our place with neighbours who actually don't really want to talk.
Would you sit up like ducks and wait to be killed?

Abu... if your country dont take more of territory as you got after WWII, there shouldnt (maybe) be such a problems. But Israel is taking more and more.... :-( life of not-Israel people is not problem :-(

Look on your map after WWII and OSN council and then on your current map :-(

OK I must quit, my English is not so good to continue in this debate, but I have a lot of interesting arguments, but it is difficult that my English skill, so I must quit :-(

The original map was accepted by Israel, but arabs did not acept them at all. Therefore started the war in 1948, and the map has been slighly changed.

In all those maps, I don't believe that you can find a palestinian state by the way. However if they really wanted peace they could have had it by now.

Funny that you quit when your English is not good enough for the debate.
Aren't you the one who said that you changed your mind after reading?

What were you reading?

It refers to what happened on the boat , i will answer to your question later

I can read better then write :-) but I am reading mostly slovak and czech portals, but some have been created in USA (for ex. czech living long time there), so not just my homeland news portals. Of course every "good" article has links to proves, to other particular news or pictures, so I like news where I can checked if what is author saying is maybe true or not.

For ex. I saw one dead Israel man (kill by Palestinian) and on different photo but with newer time I saw very similar man in same clothes walking :-) so I believe that at the Israel is big media propaganda :-(. But of course, all is just media, the truth is just at your country, but I am not so brave to go and look on my own eyes, because at last week Israel made big problems to some czechs journalist with cameras there :-). So I am not so brave go to your country check this, maybe you would give me to prison for "some" reason :-(

Nothing bad on you, I dont have problem to have you as friend but this is just my opinion on this world conflict.

There was not Palestina state but also Jews state. But Israel state was created on land where live another nation, am I wrong ?

really I would like to publish more information I know and maybe I can find some eng news for that, but I am working man (no time for that), so I just tell you my opinion.

Maybe is wrong, but after I am reading more news, this is my new opinion.
Sorry, really nothing against you, just your country is now evil :-( and OSN is doing nothing important :-(

I respect your opinion even if you look at the situation wrong way .
Later I will detail a bit about the origins of the conflict but now I tell you one thing - the Jews lived in Israel long before Muhammad was born and founded Islam - and it's known fact .

before readon here i thought "jew" was like a bad word to you, and atheist jews didnt called themselves like atheist jews, i mean for me is like if now spain changes to the celtic-iberic-mixed with-romans state or sth?

Ethnitism mixed with religion sound backward history to mee

Even i dislike more muslim religion if it is possible

Another thing, wasnt al fatah a laicist palestinan party or i am wrong? If most of u are laicist and al fatah i laicist too where is the porblem to reach a situation where no religion involved?

OK, my last comment... there lives two nation for long time, but one is much stronger and want live there alone and another is weaker but want live there alone too :-), weaker side are using terrorist action (they have maybe no army but anyway it is ugly) and stronger side are using army.

This is not my problem, but what is my problem that OSN should be neutral and solve this, but there are sanctions just on one side or OSN is doing nothing, mostly because of USA. And this is what I don like.

And thx for your opinion, maybe I am wrong, but I am reading everything what you wrote too :P

bye for now...

Give us respect please.

The trick of showing fake dead people is already copyrighted and we do not breach THIS law.
The arabs are masters in this trade, and I don't think we even care to compete with them.

We have enough innocent casualties. We do not have to cheat this cheap.

More respect please.

"Later I will detail a bit about the origins of the conflict but now I tell you one thing - the Jews lived in Israel long before Muhammad was born and founded Islam - and it's known fact ."

do you think this is a relevant argument in this discussion?

Romans, Byzantynes, Ottomans, Turks and Arabs have lived there in the mean time as well. I know this statement is going to catch a lot of flack but:
1) international community can never accept an argument like that, much for the same reasons I gave in my post against yossarian.
2) an argument like that only 'works' if you legitimise it by stating that your are a 'special' case a. Which is a very bigoted thing to do.
3) sad but true. Other people live there as well. Inhumane to start 'relocating' them. I know this is the very argument used by the israeli government to keep defending the colonies. Unfortunately, this works both ways.
4) some of you were already very keen in defending that "wars work like that and in history countries are conquered by other countries before". Now, if you want to use history to claim israel back, a statement like the previous already turns it into void. Seems you were fair and square conquered by the romans. I can live with that. Don't call me a bigoted racist for pointing this out. You did it for me.
(edited)

If the OSN was neutral, there was no need for efforts to block it's unilateral attempts.
This is a gain of few against a many.
What is also funny is that most of those who blame Israel and convict it, do not really care or do contribute to anything. Not in their own countries, not for the palestinians. Just against Israel.

The US is the major sponsor for the UN, but suffers from the fact that the UN is not uniting the nations

please... yes, everyone is against israel and we were all secretly rooting for the germans. there.

So funny song :)

I for one, do not use Abu-Shushu's arguments. There is also a debate between us. However do not worry, we are friends, Abu-Shshu and myself. Despite our difference in political point of views we even support each other in Hattrick...

regarding your point 3.
I agree that relocating is not the solution. I would even support relocating some Israelies who settled in the west bank, for true peace. We already did that in Gaza, but unfortunately this experiment fell to bring peaceful attitude towards us.

And again - I am all for peace.

However, it does not have to be relocation. During some of the talks (which you urge Israel to do, and we indeed do), it was suggested to exchange territories. Give some big muslim cities in exchange for other areas. They should just turn to become citizens of the new Palestinian state, that WAS disscussed (but rejected. not by Israel).

The main criticism came from the arabs temselves. The arabs who live in Israel . They prefer to belong to Israel, than to be part of the palestinian independant stae.

It seems that some arabs who know from first wittnessing eye, prefer the humitarian approach of Israel over what they would have received from their brothers.