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Subject: Israel – The Throwback
That reminds of a C&H comic that I won't post :P
But yeah, compromises are usually met, you rarely ever win.
But yeah, compromises are usually met, you rarely ever win.
In tough times (and we have lot of them in Israel), I always ask myself what can we do to make it better? (for humanity not just for israel).
I always find myself in a dead-end. the reason is that two groups want the same land.
We must be honest, the minority (the fanatic one) is stronger than the majority (especially when war is all around). The majority wants to live in peace and will except the other side existence but the minority wont let him.
I am sure that the palestinians have many example of how the minority in israel destroys chances for piece, and the other way around.
I am in the majority in Israel that wants piece and security and even pride (pride that my neighbours will have normal life and not the shame of fighting and making their life tougher).
BUT, the fact is:
HAMAS is using some new-modern-tactics, that are tough and even impossible to beat:
1. their soldiers uniform include: Rifle,grenades,mines and UN uniform.
2. They choose their rocket-launch points nearest as possible to children/schools/UN-building hoping for Israeli counter attack.
3. They succed in killing their brothers from FATAH in cold blood, shooting their legs, and than crying for the world to see how brotal israel is, and they are actually forgiven!
4. Most important of all: they using most of the money given by the world for weapons/rockets instead of buying food or starting their industry.
The fact is that Israel will leave them alone (we are out of there already) if they will just stop firing rockets).
Every day your city is hit by 3-30 rockets, if you didnt felt it you can never understand what are we going throught.
when you try to defend yourself, you find a world that is full of hate and you feel alone in your struggle, fighting the all world for your existence (once again).
the world can change things, israeli are good people (very good, we had our past), the world can help by fighting with us against the fanatic minority, and together we can let the majority live in peace, like neighbours.
Israel showed many times how it help others in tough times, the fact is that Israel with security will be the most humanity and your best ally or neighbour.
One more thing, The truth is lying deep under many lies (interests, politics, brain-wash), If you want to really understand, you must find it. its not easy most of the time,cause it is much easier to believe the simple lies.BUT YOU HAVE TO. the fanatic-goal is to make you hate israel, for this they will do everything (sometimes when their soldiers are dead - its a success for them as in sucide-bombs).
if you are a side to the conflict, it will be impossible to change your mind. If youre not, it will be just fair to ask you if you really believe that you would prefer rockets on your family instead using your army for defence (and defence is when you stop attackers).
(edited)
I always find myself in a dead-end. the reason is that two groups want the same land.
We must be honest, the minority (the fanatic one) is stronger than the majority (especially when war is all around). The majority wants to live in peace and will except the other side existence but the minority wont let him.
I am sure that the palestinians have many example of how the minority in israel destroys chances for piece, and the other way around.
I am in the majority in Israel that wants piece and security and even pride (pride that my neighbours will have normal life and not the shame of fighting and making their life tougher).
BUT, the fact is:
HAMAS is using some new-modern-tactics, that are tough and even impossible to beat:
1. their soldiers uniform include: Rifle,grenades,mines and UN uniform.
2. They choose their rocket-launch points nearest as possible to children/schools/UN-building hoping for Israeli counter attack.
3. They succed in killing their brothers from FATAH in cold blood, shooting their legs, and than crying for the world to see how brotal israel is, and they are actually forgiven!
4. Most important of all: they using most of the money given by the world for weapons/rockets instead of buying food or starting their industry.
The fact is that Israel will leave them alone (we are out of there already) if they will just stop firing rockets).
Every day your city is hit by 3-30 rockets, if you didnt felt it you can never understand what are we going throught.
when you try to defend yourself, you find a world that is full of hate and you feel alone in your struggle, fighting the all world for your existence (once again).
the world can change things, israeli are good people (very good, we had our past), the world can help by fighting with us against the fanatic minority, and together we can let the majority live in peace, like neighbours.
Israel showed many times how it help others in tough times, the fact is that Israel with security will be the most humanity and your best ally or neighbour.
One more thing, The truth is lying deep under many lies (interests, politics, brain-wash), If you want to really understand, you must find it. its not easy most of the time,cause it is much easier to believe the simple lies.BUT YOU HAVE TO. the fanatic-goal is to make you hate israel, for this they will do everything (sometimes when their soldiers are dead - its a success for them as in sucide-bombs).
if you are a side to the conflict, it will be impossible to change your mind. If youre not, it will be just fair to ask you if you really believe that you would prefer rockets on your family instead using your army for defence (and defence is when you stop attackers).
(edited)
I don't think I can argue against anything in that post, but the key question remains unanswered: do you think that the heavy-handed military approach of hamas is bearing any fruit?
And, more out of personal interest: how did israel build op their relation with fatah to its current status? It used to be the organisation of the (hated?) Arafat, right? How did that change?
One last point:
"4. Most important of all: they using most of the money given by the world for weapons/rockets instead of buying food or starting their industry."
UN reports say no building materials are allowed to enter gaza. How does point 4 add up to this?
And, more out of personal interest: how did israel build op their relation with fatah to its current status? It used to be the organisation of the (hated?) Arafat, right? How did that change?
One last point:
"4. Most important of all: they using most of the money given by the world for weapons/rockets instead of buying food or starting their industry."
UN reports say no building materials are allowed to enter gaza. How does point 4 add up to this?
Every day your city is hit by 3-30 rockets, if you didnt felt it you can never understand what are we going throught.
when you try to defend yourself, you find a world that is full of hate and you feel alone in your struggle, fighting the all world for your existence (once again).
This is all just about consequences... why are they launching that rockets ??
If you take "my land" I would do same....ok question is to who belongs this country, all sides say "it is mine! "
World hates what can see in videos and facts.... nobody expects that somebody will be happy of videos or war facts from both sides, war is cruel.
Problem is that this problem started when Israel was created in very "hot place".
I am not saying that you do not have right for your own country, especially after cruel made at WWII on your nation... but your new home was under UNO very problematic but maybe real project.... till the time when you take your truth into your hand... :-(
when you try to defend yourself, you find a world that is full of hate and you feel alone in your struggle, fighting the all world for your existence (once again).
This is all just about consequences... why are they launching that rockets ??
If you take "my land" I would do same....ok question is to who belongs this country, all sides say "it is mine! "
World hates what can see in videos and facts.... nobody expects that somebody will be happy of videos or war facts from both sides, war is cruel.
Problem is that this problem started when Israel was created in very "hot place".
I am not saying that you do not have right for your own country, especially after cruel made at WWII on your nation... but your new home was under UNO very problematic but maybe real project.... till the time when you take your truth into your hand... :-(
do you think that the heavy-handed military approach of hamas is bearing any fruit?
I hope not, but ofcourse they believe that it will succed scaring all jews out of this country and sending us back to europe (were we lived before the holocaust-those are their thoughts).
how did israel build op their relation with fatah to its current status? It used to be the organisation of the (hated?) Arafat, right? How did that change?
Economics and progress, they just have much more to loose. abu-mazen really cares for his people.
Arafat could never bring this to fatah - he didnt want peace, he had other interest and goals.
UN reports say no building materials are allowed to enter gaza. How does point 4 add up to this?
look 10 years back, not just few months. if money was used for economics and progress, we were in a better place today.
I will conclude it by saying:
The Piece will come when gaza people will live their normal life,meaning they will have something to loose. but I cant see how we can get there.
If you will make some calculations, you will be amazed by the tons of supplies arriving per person in gaza, and the amount of money per person. where is it? we all know the various answers to that.
(edited)
(edited)
I hope not, but ofcourse they believe that it will succed scaring all jews out of this country and sending us back to europe (were we lived before the holocaust-those are their thoughts).
how did israel build op their relation with fatah to its current status? It used to be the organisation of the (hated?) Arafat, right? How did that change?
Economics and progress, they just have much more to loose. abu-mazen really cares for his people.
Arafat could never bring this to fatah - he didnt want peace, he had other interest and goals.
UN reports say no building materials are allowed to enter gaza. How does point 4 add up to this?
look 10 years back, not just few months. if money was used for economics and progress, we were in a better place today.
I will conclude it by saying:
The Piece will come when gaza people will live their normal life,meaning they will have something to loose. but I cant see how we can get there.
If you will make some calculations, you will be amazed by the tons of supplies arriving per person in gaza, and the amount of money per person. where is it? we all know the various answers to that.
(edited)
(edited)
damnit, first time I get an answer to that question and I asked it wrong
do you think that the heavy-handed military approach AGAINST hamas is bearing any fruit?
And do you have those numbers of goods per person?
(edited)
do you think that the heavy-handed military approach AGAINST hamas is bearing any fruit?
And do you have those numbers of goods per person?
(edited)
I understand your toughts, both sides has their past. we had the holocaust and they had us.
One thing I cannot give: My country. its simple: I dont have anywhere to go. a lot of people died here.
I beieve that both sides can live here. If they will just accept the others rights to live here also.
the arguments between the majority of both sides can be solved, there is no other way.
about the facts showed in tv:
I must disagree, I really believe that this is a weapon against us . I told you about the HAMAS tactics, they are winning in that area. I wonder :
if you will be on a F-16 above a fighter that soon will fire a rockets toward your family, will you shoot? and if he is in a house? tough life for us. tough decisions to make. a lot of israeli died for not hurting civilians, civilians that the HAMAS have brought as a human shield. we will never do that.
(edited)
One thing I cannot give: My country. its simple: I dont have anywhere to go. a lot of people died here.
I beieve that both sides can live here. If they will just accept the others rights to live here also.
the arguments between the majority of both sides can be solved, there is no other way.
about the facts showed in tv:
I must disagree, I really believe that this is a weapon against us . I told you about the HAMAS tactics, they are winning in that area. I wonder :
if you will be on a F-16 above a fighter that soon will fire a rockets toward your family, will you shoot? and if he is in a house? tough life for us. tough decisions to make. a lot of israeli died for not hurting civilians, civilians that the HAMAS have brought as a human shield. we will never do that.
(edited)
doesn't answer the question. do you think it is working?
Also, while it is understandable that a soldier will feel personal feelings during his job, you can't use them as justification for his actions. Tough decisions or not.
do you think that the heavy-handed military approach AGAINST hamas is bearing any fruit?
No, ofcourse not. more death more hate and more frustration.
do you think theres another way to defend our familys? please advice.
And do you have those numbers of goods per person?
something like a ton a year (food+aid). but I am not saying life is luxury there, I just saying that israel main goal is to make life better in Gaza (yes, can you believe what Im saying??) and HAMAS wants the other way around. you must understand: what will happen if life in gaza will be good as in the west-bank? will the HAMAS be stronger or weaker? he wants us out! two nations for two countries is the worst thing that can happen to HAMAS. they will not let their people live normal life making them lose the world attention.
(edited)
No, ofcourse not. more death more hate and more frustration.
do you think theres another way to defend our familys? please advice.
And do you have those numbers of goods per person?
something like a ton a year (food+aid). but I am not saying life is luxury there, I just saying that israel main goal is to make life better in Gaza (yes, can you believe what Im saying??) and HAMAS wants the other way around. you must understand: what will happen if life in gaza will be good as in the west-bank? will the HAMAS be stronger or weaker? he wants us out! two nations for two countries is the worst thing that can happen to HAMAS. they will not let their people live normal life making them lose the world attention.
(edited)
doesn't answer the question. do you think it is working?
with your permission I answered rumpil :)
with your permission I answered rumpil :)
Also, while it is understandable that a soldier will feel personal feelings during his job, you can't use them as justification for his actions. Tough decisions or not.
Im not sure I understand, so I will ask it differently:
How you fight an enemy that use his civilians as human-shield? I will show the progress:
1. israel army is out of gaza.
2. gaza is firing rockets on cities (dozens a day)
3. israel cry for the world to help - no one cares.
4. israel gets inside to find those who fire rockets.
5. those HAMAS-fighters uses civilian clothes, and fighting from schools and hospital (their leaders bunker was in a hospital).
6. you cant win, no matter what will happen.
7. you get out, rockets are back.
(edited)
Im not sure I understand, so I will ask it differently:
How you fight an enemy that use his civilians as human-shield? I will show the progress:
1. israel army is out of gaza.
2. gaza is firing rockets on cities (dozens a day)
3. israel cry for the world to help - no one cares.
4. israel gets inside to find those who fire rockets.
5. those HAMAS-fighters uses civilian clothes, and fighting from schools and hospital (their leaders bunker was in a hospital).
6. you cant win, no matter what will happen.
7. you get out, rockets are back.
(edited)
it's jewish, so it isn't propaganda, right? Or are they just misinformed?
At the end everything can be propaganda if you want to believe that ;) And the word 'propaganda' can always be used as a good excuse not to accept the info as true.
But at least these are jewish organizations so they can't be accused of being anti-simetic and are very well informed. Also CNN and Spiegel etc are good sources I think.
There are many more of these Jewish organizations, like this 1: Website IJAN (International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network). These sites are not that difficult to find and their articles and video's are often very interesting and instructive.
The funny thing is, in the former topic I informed everyone of the boycott against Israel. This isn't in the benifit of Palestinians was the reaction of Israeli. Well, on this same site I found this article:
Support Palestinian Call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel
(edited)
At the end everything can be propaganda if you want to believe that ;) And the word 'propaganda' can always be used as a good excuse not to accept the info as true.
But at least these are jewish organizations so they can't be accused of being anti-simetic and are very well informed. Also CNN and Spiegel etc are good sources I think.
There are many more of these Jewish organizations, like this 1: Website IJAN (International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network). These sites are not that difficult to find and their articles and video's are often very interesting and instructive.
The funny thing is, in the former topic I informed everyone of the boycott against Israel. This isn't in the benifit of Palestinians was the reaction of Israeli. Well, on this same site I found this article:
Support Palestinian Call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel
(edited)
The change in Turkey behaviour toward israel is the biggest shock for israelies.
Turkey was our favourite. more than 10% of our population had travelled to turkey each year!!
Turkey was an example and hope for the world (as we saw it). now its all over.
israeli majority thoughts:
The goal for turkey is clearer than ever. they want to declare a war on israel, they will not rest until they will find the way to make it happen.
I hope we are wrong. turkey is really a key-player (or was...).
Turkey was our favourite. more than 10% of our population had travelled to turkey each year!!
Turkey was an example and hope for the world (as we saw it). now its all over.
israeli majority thoughts:
The goal for turkey is clearer than ever. they want to declare a war on israel, they will not rest until they will find the way to make it happen.
I hope we are wrong. turkey is really a key-player (or was...).