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Topic closed!!!
Subject: Israel – The Throwback
Israel and close territories were always place for many cultures, nations, religions and it was long time very "hot" place for everybody living there. Anybody who wants to read history can obtain simple information, that this region was under rule of many nations, countries (French, England, Jews, and others), so imho there can not be just one state who control this area. This will be for ever reason just for terrorist attacks or war. (all is same, just different kind of weapon)
So, I can not accept, that now there is just Israel who control whole country especially Jerusalem and is crying that other nations (terrorists :-) ) are making problems.
Solution is possible just with compromise, but Israel will be saying "no compromise with terrorists" and Palestine will be saying "no compromise with that who destroy our country and nation".
My opinion is, that all sides, should be punished, because there were not able to find compromise and very long time ago, maybe early 1900 years can be time for compromises, but now it is not possible!
And after punishment of both sides, there should be just international organization which will control Jerusalem and other problematic territories with equal right for everybody.
(but Israel will never accept this, am I right ?)
Israel and others show to world many times, that they are not able to make compromises, they can just make wars. Israel is able to use strong and powerful army, Palestine is able (no army there) use devastation terrorist attacks. Every of this weapon is bad, but I do not agree that terrorism is worse, it IS JUST KIND of weapon (the best for those who have no army). If Palestine have tanks, I am sure, that they would use rather tanks than terrorism attacks :-).
So I would like to know, who can join my opinion, that current sides ARE NOT ABLE to control this regions in peace, are not able to make compromises, so all region should be JUST UNDER INTERNATIONAL administration.
(I do not want discuss who was first in this area, who has bigger right to live there, who / (to who belongs) is this country and so, we can discuss 1000 pages with no result. I just want to say, that all word can see, that there will never be peace, that there are quilt everybody, not just one side !!, and that terrorism is just kind of weapon, same bad thing as organized army of stronger country. If all are quilty and nobody can make peace and compromises there should be international administration only.)
Please, can we discuss about solution not reason of current conflict ??
So now answer like we are good, they are bad and so....
I am persuaded that current side will never solve this problem, just after Palestinians will vanish from the map for ever, but than we have there other neighbours so this problem will never end.
So, I can not accept, that now there is just Israel who control whole country especially Jerusalem and is crying that other nations (terrorists :-) ) are making problems.
Solution is possible just with compromise, but Israel will be saying "no compromise with terrorists" and Palestine will be saying "no compromise with that who destroy our country and nation".
My opinion is, that all sides, should be punished, because there were not able to find compromise and very long time ago, maybe early 1900 years can be time for compromises, but now it is not possible!
And after punishment of both sides, there should be just international organization which will control Jerusalem and other problematic territories with equal right for everybody.
(but Israel will never accept this, am I right ?)
Israel and others show to world many times, that they are not able to make compromises, they can just make wars. Israel is able to use strong and powerful army, Palestine is able (no army there) use devastation terrorist attacks. Every of this weapon is bad, but I do not agree that terrorism is worse, it IS JUST KIND of weapon (the best for those who have no army). If Palestine have tanks, I am sure, that they would use rather tanks than terrorism attacks :-).
So I would like to know, who can join my opinion, that current sides ARE NOT ABLE to control this regions in peace, are not able to make compromises, so all region should be JUST UNDER INTERNATIONAL administration.
(I do not want discuss who was first in this area, who has bigger right to live there, who / (to who belongs) is this country and so, we can discuss 1000 pages with no result. I just want to say, that all word can see, that there will never be peace, that there are quilt everybody, not just one side !!, and that terrorism is just kind of weapon, same bad thing as organized army of stronger country. If all are quilty and nobody can make peace and compromises there should be international administration only.)
Please, can we discuss about solution not reason of current conflict ??
So now answer like we are good, they are bad and so....
I am persuaded that current side will never solve this problem, just after Palestinians will vanish from the map for ever, but than we have there other neighbours so this problem will never end.
I am afraid I dont have time any more.
This debate is important and your right it can be nice and helpful.
One last thing, I want to react to anything that was written but due to lack of time I will just comment on what snowy11 thought that I wrote: somebody in this thread has even claimed that some IDF members were shot in friendly fire
As you can look at the photos published by the Turkish newspaper the soldiers were striped from their gear and under their clothes they had pistols. Those pistols were taken by the "peace activists" and they started to shoot on IDF soldiers.
The bullets were not from friendly fire, though it was from IDF weapons .
This debate is important and your right it can be nice and helpful.
One last thing, I want to react to anything that was written but due to lack of time I will just comment on what snowy11 thought that I wrote: somebody in this thread has even claimed that some IDF members were shot in friendly fire
As you can look at the photos published by the Turkish newspaper the soldiers were striped from their gear and under their clothes they had pistols. Those pistols were taken by the "peace activists" and they started to shoot on IDF soldiers.
The bullets were not from friendly fire, though it was from IDF weapons .
Please read about camp david.
It will show you who is trying to make a peaceful long lasting agreement and who is just in it for the whole of Israel.
I wish I had the time to find you the articles and explain as you deserved but I cant do it any more.
It will show you who is trying to make a peaceful long lasting agreement and who is just in it for the whole of Israel.
I wish I had the time to find you the articles and explain as you deserved but I cant do it any more.
I understand, I have no time for this... I just want, that just another (maybe forced) international administration can solve this....
Proving what exactly ?
I can try but Ohad wrote many things
I can try but Ohad wrote many things
is this true ?
If yes, I can understand why never will be this conflict solved :-)
According british stats there were 750 000 inhabitants on historical territory of Palestine at 1922. Just 12% of them was of Jew origin, 88% Muslims and Christians origin.
Resource: Baskin, G.-al Qaq, Z. /ed./: Creating a Culture of Peace. IPCRI, Jerusalem, 1999, p. 48
If yes, I can understand why never will be this conflict solved :-)
According british stats there were 750 000 inhabitants on historical territory of Palestine at 1922. Just 12% of them was of Jew origin, 88% Muslims and Christians origin.
Resource: Baskin, G.-al Qaq, Z. /ed./: Creating a Culture of Peace. IPCRI, Jerusalem, 1999, p. 48
I just put up a message on the mod forum to discuss topics like this one, which ultimately seem to turn into a scolding competition. I seldom intervene on Freestyle International, but for the other two topics about the Gaza conflict, I really felt like I had to.
Point is that a 'normal' discussion on a conflict as this one soon turns into a game of throwing insults at each other. And the truth? Guess us guys simply don't know.
My hope is that this topic will be closed and the discussion will be put to rest. No point in keeping it alive since most people seem to where blindfolds and don't want to listen to 'the other side of the story' anyway.
Grtz
Point is that a 'normal' discussion on a conflict as this one soon turns into a game of throwing insults at each other. And the truth? Guess us guys simply don't know.
My hope is that this topic will be closed and the discussion will be put to rest. No point in keeping it alive since most people seem to where blindfolds and don't want to listen to 'the other side of the story' anyway.
Grtz
XTRage to Charles Hill
he gun was fired between 2 and 14 centimeters
with four bullets in his head
But heyyyy it was self defence
It is sad that some goverments can do what ever they want without being punished, even in international waters...
(edited)
2010-06-06 18:14:35
Yarden to XTRage
i wonder what you would have done when attacked by an angry mob who wants to lynch you and throw your body to the ocean.
but heyyyyy..
totally with 4 bullets in the head, you know how stupid you sound ? and what would you do when some terrorists attack your ship on the international waters ? i would defend my ship ...
he gun was fired between 2 and 14 centimeters
with four bullets in his head
But heyyyy it was self defence
It is sad that some goverments can do what ever they want without being punished, even in international waters...
(edited)
2010-06-06 18:14:35
Yarden to XTRage
i wonder what you would have done when attacked by an angry mob who wants to lynch you and throw your body to the ocean.
but heyyyyy..
totally with 4 bullets in the head, you know how stupid you sound ? and what would you do when some terrorists attack your ship on the international waters ? i would defend my ship ...
=))) that more looks like a blog. :D
you know when THE 4 CRUSADES WERE???!!! IF YES REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE FIGHTING WITH??? ARABS!
you know when THE 4 CRUSADES WERE???!!! IF YES REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE FIGHTING WITH??? ARABS!
I think that the biggest mistake was, that OSN rules were broken :-(
After War new created OSN tried to solve this problem by creation of three territory regions.
One mostly jews, second mostly Arabian and third should have "city status - with Jerusalem" under international administration.
The differences between muslims and jews and Christians are so huge they I consider the only one solution with OSN administration, but Israel is doing its own plan, or am I wrong ?
On 26. May 1947 there was created special section of OSN for Palestine, UNSCOP /United Nations Special Committee on Palestine/ with 11 members: Austrália, Canada, Cechoslovakia, Guatemala, Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguaj, India, Iran, Yugoslávia and this commusion make two proposal:
1. variant was 2 territory regions and that "city state"
2. variant was just one but federative republic
Later economic Union.
On 14. May 1948 there was independence of Israel and then on 15. May 1948 started first israel-arabian war.
The result of was bigger Israel territory about 20 % !!!!! against OSN proposal.
And I am asking what we have now ????[/b]
If everything what think out disinterested party was cancel by Isreal, who is quilty :-).
In same year 1948 OSN accept resolution Res/194 VZ OSN, where they refused new territory status and give right to Palestinian to go home (they refused Israel occupation)
Look: United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III).
So Israel have their new dreamed bigger home, and Palestine inhabitants was running out.
And why are we now surprised of terrorist attacks ????
Very important year was also 1967, "6 -day war". Israel obtain more territory "Golans highs" (sorry for name), so Israel obtain strategic position and water resources, which are very important at that region and more regions.
So it is funny trying to solve small war/terrorist problems-actions, if we are not looking on whole problem with its history. If one nation in angry and willing to die for fight, nobody can make peace proposal !!
And now we can discuss :-)
After War new created OSN tried to solve this problem by creation of three territory regions.
One mostly jews, second mostly Arabian and third should have "city status - with Jerusalem" under international administration.
The differences between muslims and jews and Christians are so huge they I consider the only one solution with OSN administration, but Israel is doing its own plan, or am I wrong ?
On 26. May 1947 there was created special section of OSN for Palestine, UNSCOP /United Nations Special Committee on Palestine/ with 11 members: Austrália, Canada, Cechoslovakia, Guatemala, Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguaj, India, Iran, Yugoslávia and this commusion make two proposal:
1. variant was 2 territory regions and that "city state"
2. variant was just one but federative republic
Later economic Union.
On 14. May 1948 there was independence of Israel and then on 15. May 1948 started first israel-arabian war.
The result of was bigger Israel territory about 20 % !!!!! against OSN proposal.
And I am asking what we have now ????[/b]
If everything what think out disinterested party was cancel by Isreal, who is quilty :-).
In same year 1948 OSN accept resolution Res/194 VZ OSN, where they refused new territory status and give right to Palestinian to go home (they refused Israel occupation)
Look: United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (III).
So Israel have their new dreamed bigger home, and Palestine inhabitants was running out.
And why are we now surprised of terrorist attacks ????
Very important year was also 1967, "6 -day war". Israel obtain more territory "Golans highs" (sorry for name), so Israel obtain strategic position and water resources, which are very important at that region and more regions.
So it is funny trying to solve small war/terrorist problems-actions, if we are not looking on whole problem with its history. If one nation in angry and willing to die for fight, nobody can make peace proposal !!
And now we can discuss :-)
As you can look at the photos published by the Turkish newspaper the soldiers were striped from their gear and under their clothes they had pistols. Those pistols were taken by the "peace activists" and they started to shoot on IDF soldiers.
There may be photos showing IDF soldiers had their sidearms taken (citation needed), however it's circumstantial to claim (without proof) that these weapons were then used to shoot IDF soldiers.
There may be photos showing IDF soldiers had their sidearms taken (citation needed), however it's circumstantial to claim (without proof) that these weapons were then used to shoot IDF soldiers.
We could discuss if Israeli guys wouldn't be that extreme. So no, thank you.
"however it's circumstantial to claim (without proof) that these weapons were then used to shoot IDF soldiers."
for starters, yes..
(edited)
for starters, yes..
(edited)