Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Topic closed!!!
Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
Schepel, do you believe that those who may use religion as "a ready excuse for violence" would act any different if they were NOT religious?
I do. Most people are just people. For bad things to happen, one needs motive and opportunity. Religion may afford both. Mind, it's not just about violence, it's also about the way others are treated. Take for example gay people. Otherwise nice and generally tolerant people are in a habit of denouncing gay people for no other reason than their sexual preference. To cut a long story short, there is a very strong causal relationship between truly open society and a lack of strongly felt religion. (The same can be said about nationalism, by the way.)
I know of no mainstream religion that preaches violence.
If you take the main holy books (bible and kur'an) literally, then you'll find a strong call for violence in both.
ANY group has some level of tolerance or intolerance towards those not in the same group.
That is of course completely true. However, religion is toxic. It asks from the believers to believe without question and do God's work. The potential for very bad things is enormous. The really sad thing is that out of the best motives, horrendous acts are perpetrated. After all, is it not God's work and God's work always good?
Schepel, I can not say that, as that is not my core belief. God gives us opportunities to repent from our sins. As a Christian I believe that God ultimately separates those who do not believe in Him from those who do believe in Him, in Heaven and Hell.
Which is where you denounce everyone not of your faith as second rate human beings.
That I believe this does not make me evil
I never said you were. :-) Acts alone may make people evil. However, religion is a concept, an idea. My conviction is that the idea itself is problematic, evil. Followers of the idea itself are people who deserve to be judged on their own merits, not on their beliefs. Ideas alone are never enough to be judged as an evil person. It is what you say and what you do. For an idea, a concept, it's a different issue altogether. That may be judged on its potential. (In the case of religion, it can also be judged on past results. There is nothing which has caused so much misery as religion in the history of mankind.)
I do. Most people are just people. For bad things to happen, one needs motive and opportunity. Religion may afford both. Mind, it's not just about violence, it's also about the way others are treated. Take for example gay people. Otherwise nice and generally tolerant people are in a habit of denouncing gay people for no other reason than their sexual preference. To cut a long story short, there is a very strong causal relationship between truly open society and a lack of strongly felt religion. (The same can be said about nationalism, by the way.)
I know of no mainstream religion that preaches violence.
If you take the main holy books (bible and kur'an) literally, then you'll find a strong call for violence in both.
ANY group has some level of tolerance or intolerance towards those not in the same group.
That is of course completely true. However, religion is toxic. It asks from the believers to believe without question and do God's work. The potential for very bad things is enormous. The really sad thing is that out of the best motives, horrendous acts are perpetrated. After all, is it not God's work and God's work always good?
Schepel, I can not say that, as that is not my core belief. God gives us opportunities to repent from our sins. As a Christian I believe that God ultimately separates those who do not believe in Him from those who do believe in Him, in Heaven and Hell.
Which is where you denounce everyone not of your faith as second rate human beings.
That I believe this does not make me evil
I never said you were. :-) Acts alone may make people evil. However, religion is a concept, an idea. My conviction is that the idea itself is problematic, evil. Followers of the idea itself are people who deserve to be judged on their own merits, not on their beliefs. Ideas alone are never enough to be judged as an evil person. It is what you say and what you do. For an idea, a concept, it's a different issue altogether. That may be judged on its potential. (In the case of religion, it can also be judged on past results. There is nothing which has caused so much misery as religion in the history of mankind.)
in brief on the last sentence: Oh yes there is: greed, power and money
You are sadly mistaken. It's not until religious goals come into play, that people really start to die in huge numbers. Religious conflicts target all, women and children included, whereas regular conflicts over money and/or power target no more than is required in the minds of the participants. More, it usually leaves an avenue for surrender open. Religious conflicts do not.
As to 'religion implies intolerance'- ANY group has some level of tolerance or intolerance towards those not in the same group. Students from different schools, even members of different churches of the same religion in the same city.
I said that some level of intolerance is normal and is everywhere, but I also said that those group is pretending big tolerance, open mind for everyone no matter if he believe or not but they act in different way. I am angry on this hypocrisy. But believers of Islam are in-tolerate publicly :-) that is the difference.
I have been proud on my secondary school and I was saying that my school is always better than another one which was very good too :-). But I was saying this publicly so there was no hypocrism from my side (=no saying that we our school are good both and behaving like I have better school and another was shit :-) ).
I said that some level of intolerance is normal and is everywhere, but I also said that those group is pretending big tolerance, open mind for everyone no matter if he believe or not but they act in different way. I am angry on this hypocrisy. But believers of Islam are in-tolerate publicly :-) that is the difference.
I have been proud on my secondary school and I was saying that my school is always better than another one which was very good too :-). But I was saying this publicly so there was no hypocrism from my side (=no saying that we our school are good both and behaving like I have better school and another was shit :-) ).
take on a date some girl when she is religious and you not and than you will see how the parents of she will react :-). They will say you "you are welcome, have a nice date/day" and after date they will tell to doughter "you can not be with him! "
this is what I really dont like on Christians. It is much easier in Islam, there that girl will never accept date with you from the start maybe :-DD
this is what I really dont like on Christians. It is much easier in Islam, there that girl will never accept date with you from the start maybe :-DD
this is way how demonstration are held in czech rep. Do you see that difference :-) ?
(video is boring, no police there)
(video is boring, no police there)
and this is my last for today (I had couple of days back big inactivity, I know that you missed me :-DDD)
Libya - reasons for attack
Libya - reasons for attack
There was a football party planned on that square ;)
I like the man for speaking of us so highly. Sorry mr Ahmedinejad but we cannot fulfill your wishes, we're terribly sorry. If only we could.
Belgium (and probably some other countries too) are lasting for rain.
Maybe we aren't western enough?
You can have a great laugh with this man =p
here's our protest from Saturday :) Justice for Charlene Downes. Very sad story.
http://www.youtube.com/v/DZmQqCG-BpA&feature=related
How do you embed things on here?
(edited)
http://www.youtube.com/v/DZmQqCG-BpA&feature=related
How do you embed things on here?
(edited)
this is what I really dont like on Christians. It is much easier in Islam, there that girl will never accept date with you from the start maybe :-DD
Own experience: No, but as far as I know even her family didn't disapprove.
there is a very strong causal relationship between truly open society and a lack of strongly felt religion such as ??
If you take the main holy books (bible and kur'an) literally, then you'll find a strong call for violence in both. Citation. easy to make a claim, please back it up.
religion is toxic. politics, ethnic background, culture, nationalism, greed, prejudice to me, are the main reasons for 'toxicity'
Which is where you denounce everyone not of your faith as second rate human beings
sorry, you are trying to put words into my mouth. as stated, God is to judge people for their belief, or lack of it, not me.
There is nothing which has caused so much misery as religion in the history of mankind.
World War I and World War II were NOT religious wars. But political. The Japanese occupation of the Manchuka region of china in before and during World War II was not due to religion, rather economics of Japan's expansion- with Japan killing 15-22 million Chinese civilians.
No let me restate, there ARE some people whose religious beliefs are dangerous and and they resort to violence.
If you take the main holy books (bible and kur'an) literally, then you'll find a strong call for violence in both. Citation. easy to make a claim, please back it up.
religion is toxic. politics, ethnic background, culture, nationalism, greed, prejudice to me, are the main reasons for 'toxicity'
Which is where you denounce everyone not of your faith as second rate human beings
sorry, you are trying to put words into my mouth. as stated, God is to judge people for their belief, or lack of it, not me.
There is nothing which has caused so much misery as religion in the history of mankind.
World War I and World War II were NOT religious wars. But political. The Japanese occupation of the Manchuka region of china in before and during World War II was not due to religion, rather economics of Japan's expansion- with Japan killing 15-22 million Chinese civilians.
No let me restate, there ARE some people whose religious beliefs are dangerous and and they resort to violence.
such as ??
Look at Europe before 1960 and Europe after 1960. Iran would be a strong example of a closed society, but the USA should also be named. From the death penalty to gay rights or abortion, religious beliefs are a major consideration in politics.
Citation. easy to make a claim, please back it up.
Even easier to google 5 minutes. This is, or ought to be, common knowledge. Or does an eye for an eye not ring a bell to you? There are quite a few other examples, specifically in the old testament. In the kur'an there is also enough unpleasant stuff.
politics, ethnic background, culture, nationalism, greed, prejudice to me, are the main reasons for 'toxicity'
As said, nationalism is very much comparable. Doesn't change the fact religion, for the stated reasons, is toxic as well.
sorry, you are trying to put words into my mouth. as stated, God is to judge people for their belief, or lack of it, not me.
You said these words yourself. Either you do not accept their meaning or you cannot understand their meaning. You very clearly make a difference between those who believe and those who do not. Now you say God will pass judgement, but you know - or think you know - on what grounds he will do so, don't you?
World War I and World War II were NOT religious wars.
Convoluted examples. The persecution of jews might very well be considered a persecution based on religion. If you look back at, for example the thirty years wars in Europe, you'll see the difference between politics and religion very clearly.
The Japanese occupation of the Manchuka region of china in before and during World War II was not due to religion, rather economics of Japan's expansion- with Japan killing 15-22 million Chinese civilians.
The killings did not have a political motivation. They are a historical fact, but the reason behind them is hotly disputed. However, not everyone was killed. Religiously motivated killing doesn't stop till everyone is dead, usually. However, ethnic nationalism does seem to share this unfortunate trait.
No let me restate, there ARE some people whose religious beliefs are dangerous and and they resort to violence.
Ask yourself why that could be so. Once again, I do not say religious people are evil, I say religion is evil, or rather, has a strong potential for evil.
(edited)
Look at Europe before 1960 and Europe after 1960. Iran would be a strong example of a closed society, but the USA should also be named. From the death penalty to gay rights or abortion, religious beliefs are a major consideration in politics.
Citation. easy to make a claim, please back it up.
Even easier to google 5 minutes. This is, or ought to be, common knowledge. Or does an eye for an eye not ring a bell to you? There are quite a few other examples, specifically in the old testament. In the kur'an there is also enough unpleasant stuff.
politics, ethnic background, culture, nationalism, greed, prejudice to me, are the main reasons for 'toxicity'
As said, nationalism is very much comparable. Doesn't change the fact religion, for the stated reasons, is toxic as well.
sorry, you are trying to put words into my mouth. as stated, God is to judge people for their belief, or lack of it, not me.
You said these words yourself. Either you do not accept their meaning or you cannot understand their meaning. You very clearly make a difference between those who believe and those who do not. Now you say God will pass judgement, but you know - or think you know - on what grounds he will do so, don't you?
World War I and World War II were NOT religious wars.
Convoluted examples. The persecution of jews might very well be considered a persecution based on religion. If you look back at, for example the thirty years wars in Europe, you'll see the difference between politics and religion very clearly.
The Japanese occupation of the Manchuka region of china in before and during World War II was not due to religion, rather economics of Japan's expansion- with Japan killing 15-22 million Chinese civilians.
The killings did not have a political motivation. They are a historical fact, but the reason behind them is hotly disputed. However, not everyone was killed. Religiously motivated killing doesn't stop till everyone is dead, usually. However, ethnic nationalism does seem to share this unfortunate trait.
No let me restate, there ARE some people whose religious beliefs are dangerous and and they resort to violence.
Ask yourself why that could be so. Once again, I do not say religious people are evil, I say religion is evil, or rather, has a strong potential for evil.
(edited)