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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
China, interesting example. The social bubble China is building on will explode some time. Maybe not this year, or the next decade, but the China of today is untenable.
as for my oppinion about the subject, all war criminals should be trialed and sentenced if found guilty. i lived in yugoslavia and i can't say i see the point of breaking up a country thah could've been one of the backbones of eu military and economy just to reunite 20ish years later as separate countries that practicly have to beg to be considered candidates for that same union. saying that you were yugoslavian had certain weight if nothing less people knew where your country was + our football leagues were 100 times better :D
was there, is there or will there ever be an empire that will last forever as the top country of the world?
china will certainly fall one day, as will usa or eu, and as sssr, roman empire or mongol empire fell apart
my point was that saying closed market + apsolutistic government is not equal to doomed.
china will certainly fall one day, as will usa or eu, and as sssr, roman empire or mongol empire fell apart
my point was that saying closed market + apsolutistic government is not equal to doomed.
i lived in yugoslavia and i can't say i see the point of breaking up a country thah could've been one of the backbones of eu military and economy
No way. When a country is suppressing certain ideologies military (like anti-socialism), it has no chance of getting in EU. No chance at all. You cannot suppress certain nationalism. On contrary, you'll make it stronger by suppressing it. That's why Yugoslavia had no future in the twenty-first century. We don't live in a time without worldwide communication anymore.
No way. When a country is suppressing certain ideologies military (like anti-socialism), it has no chance of getting in EU. No chance at all. You cannot suppress certain nationalism. On contrary, you'll make it stronger by suppressing it. That's why Yugoslavia had no future in the twenty-first century. We don't live in a time without worldwide communication anymore.
my point was that saying closed market + apsolutistic government is not equal to doomed.
Yes it is. Give me one example with closed market and authoritarian government that has been lasting for a long time.
china will certainly fall one day, as will usa or eu, and as sssr, roman empire or mongol empire fell apart
China will certainly fall if they don't do reforms towards European/American model of the state. The USA will lose power, as we don't live in a world that is dominated by one superpower (post-USSR) anymore, but USA will stay a big player imo. EU will have to change if they want to keep a major role in world politics.
Yes it is. Give me one example with closed market and authoritarian government that has been lasting for a long time.
china will certainly fall one day, as will usa or eu, and as sssr, roman empire or mongol empire fell apart
China will certainly fall if they don't do reforms towards European/American model of the state. The USA will lose power, as we don't live in a world that is dominated by one superpower (post-USSR) anymore, but USA will stay a big player imo. EU will have to change if they want to keep a major role in world politics.
Yes it is. Give me one example with closed market and authoritarian government that has been lasting for a long time.
China
China will certainly fall if they don't do reforms towards European/American model of the state. The USA will lose power, as we don't live in a world that is dominated by one superpower (post-USSR) anymore, but USA will stay a big player imo. EU will have to change if they want to keep a major role in world politics.
and this right here is why eu/usa will fall sooner than china. you'd need to know to respect ways of other countries, so a way of running the state that is best for let's say belgium may not be the best way for china.
how you rule people depend a lot about which people are being ruled, see russia for example and they are pretty much the same "we need strong leader" mentality due to their long history under tzars/dynasties.
russia tried the western way, went into deepest mud they've been to since ivan grozni and now went back to good "we love our tzar" system (yeah, there is democracy but on paper, putin is more a tzar than a prime minister/president) and will soon stand side by side with china
China
China will certainly fall if they don't do reforms towards European/American model of the state. The USA will lose power, as we don't live in a world that is dominated by one superpower (post-USSR) anymore, but USA will stay a big player imo. EU will have to change if they want to keep a major role in world politics.
and this right here is why eu/usa will fall sooner than china. you'd need to know to respect ways of other countries, so a way of running the state that is best for let's say belgium may not be the best way for china.
how you rule people depend a lot about which people are being ruled, see russia for example and they are pretty much the same "we need strong leader" mentality due to their long history under tzars/dynasties.
russia tried the western way, went into deepest mud they've been to since ivan grozni and now went back to good "we love our tzar" system (yeah, there is democracy but on paper, putin is more a tzar than a prime minister/president) and will soon stand side by side with china
yugoslavia was a major player, 4th by military strength in europe + had biiiiiig influence as founders of non-aligned nations that was bigger than nato or warsaw pact so it's economical influence on huge markets like chinese, indian or african could hardly be something that eu would rather pass
it's easy to say now "naah, we wouldn't accept sfry" as it can only be theoretical :)
it's easy to say now "naah, we wouldn't accept sfry" as it can only be theoretical :)
Yes it is. Give me one example with closed market and authoritarian government that has been lasting for a long time.
China
Although China is not a free market country, it's not a communist one neither (although the party is still 'the Chinese communist party'). A real communist pukes of what China does. Therefore, it is imo not a good example.
and this right here is why eu/usa will fall sooner than china. you'd need to know to respect ways of other countries, so a way of running the state that is best for let's say belgium may not be the best way for china.
Belgium is not ran very well :p
Serious: the system China is currently using will eventually lead to great protests from the farmers outside the cities, who are still as poor as they were 20 years ago. China is making a super rich class that is a fraction of the population, this leads to huge tensions. The human rights are just a paper for the Chinese government. After a certain time, when they see how people live in the Western world a free life, the Chinese people will rise against their government. And China cannot have a second Tienanmen.
China
Although China is not a free market country, it's not a communist one neither (although the party is still 'the Chinese communist party'). A real communist pukes of what China does. Therefore, it is imo not a good example.
and this right here is why eu/usa will fall sooner than china. you'd need to know to respect ways of other countries, so a way of running the state that is best for let's say belgium may not be the best way for china.
Belgium is not ran very well :p
Serious: the system China is currently using will eventually lead to great protests from the farmers outside the cities, who are still as poor as they were 20 years ago. China is making a super rich class that is a fraction of the population, this leads to huge tensions. The human rights are just a paper for the Chinese government. After a certain time, when they see how people live in the Western world a free life, the Chinese people will rise against their government. And China cannot have a second Tienanmen.
yugoslavia was a major player, 4th by military strength in europe
What has military to do with the EU? There is no EU-force or something like that.
had biiiiiig influence as founders of non-aligned nations that was bigger than nato or warsaw pact
I'm quite sure this is plain wrong. Can you give a source of this? (remember we are talking before 90's, when India and China (which is not a member by the way) were not what they are today)
so it's economical influence on huge markets like chinese, indian or african could hardly be something that eu would rather pass
it's easy to say now "naah, we wouldn't accept sfry" as it can only be theoretical :)
It's not. Just say "Sorry, but you first have to accept human rights before we can talk about entering EU". Just like arresting the former-Yugoslav generals was a criteria to let Croatia in, and is a criteria for talks with Serbia.
(Going to bed now, I'll read your answers tomorrow ;-) )
(edited)
What has military to do with the EU? There is no EU-force or something like that.
had biiiiiig influence as founders of non-aligned nations that was bigger than nato or warsaw pact
I'm quite sure this is plain wrong. Can you give a source of this? (remember we are talking before 90's, when India and China (which is not a member by the way) were not what they are today)
so it's economical influence on huge markets like chinese, indian or african could hardly be something that eu would rather pass
it's easy to say now "naah, we wouldn't accept sfry" as it can only be theoretical :)
It's not. Just say "Sorry, but you first have to accept human rights before we can talk about entering EU". Just like arresting the former-Yugoslav generals was a criteria to let Croatia in, and is a criteria for talks with Serbia.
(Going to bed now, I'll read your answers tomorrow ;-) )
(edited)
Although China is not a free market country, it's not a communist one neither (although the party is still 'the Chinese communist party'). A real communist pukes of what China does. Therefore, it is imo not a good example.
what china is doing is a slow transformation of communism into something that works for them and they keep trying to make their own system. is it working for them? yes it is at the moment.
will it work for them in 20 years? dunno, i'm not a prophet, but the fact is that 25 years ago people said "china will fall soon, they can't keep it up like this" (my mother being one of those after her visit to beijing in 1988)
so far they are doing a good job and i don't need a name-tag every system of government if you do, we can call their chinism ;)
like i said few posts before the best system for one state is not the best for every state. every country should go their own way and not have military actions forced upon them to "install" democracy (which by the way in the end turns out not to work for them - afghanistan, iraq, probably will be the same with libya)
what china is doing is a slow transformation of communism into something that works for them and they keep trying to make their own system. is it working for them? yes it is at the moment.
will it work for them in 20 years? dunno, i'm not a prophet, but the fact is that 25 years ago people said "china will fall soon, they can't keep it up like this" (my mother being one of those after her visit to beijing in 1988)
so far they are doing a good job and i don't need a name-tag every system of government if you do, we can call their chinism ;)
like i said few posts before the best system for one state is not the best for every state. every country should go their own way and not have military actions forced upon them to "install" democracy (which by the way in the end turns out not to work for them - afghanistan, iraq, probably will be the same with libya)
I never said China will fall. I said China will fall if they don't do something about the social bubble, if they don't do the necessary reforms. And those reforms won't be in the direction of authoritarianism and/or closed market, it will be the other way.
And you are right democracy is a process.
(And now I'm really going to sleep :p)
And you are right democracy is a process.
(And now I'm really going to sleep :p)
What has military to do with the EU? There is no EU-force or something like that.
military has everything to do with any kind of interstate relations. if your military is strong enough, you get certain "benefits" or let's say special treatment by countries around you
like when you show up as a new kid in class being a bad ass 190cm 100kg mma fighter or 150cm 70kg fat nerd. trust me, you wont be approached in the same way by people in school :))
I'm quite sure this is plain wrong. Can you give a source of this?
not really sure which part you think is wrong?
yugoslavia was founder, together with india,indonesia, ghana and egypt. now i don't know which part of bigger you disagree on?
i meant bigger market, more population... as non-aligned members are/were almost whole africa+big part of asia + big part of south and central america i'm 101% sure it's bigger than nato or warsaw pact was at that moment :)
(edited)
military has everything to do with any kind of interstate relations. if your military is strong enough, you get certain "benefits" or let's say special treatment by countries around you
like when you show up as a new kid in class being a bad ass 190cm 100kg mma fighter or 150cm 70kg fat nerd. trust me, you wont be approached in the same way by people in school :))
I'm quite sure this is plain wrong. Can you give a source of this?
not really sure which part you think is wrong?
yugoslavia was founder, together with india,indonesia, ghana and egypt. now i don't know which part of bigger you disagree on?
i meant bigger market, more population... as non-aligned members are/were almost whole africa+big part of asia + big part of south and central america i'm 101% sure it's bigger than nato or warsaw pact was at that moment :)
(edited)
China is not a friend of Russia. Never was, never will be. From Stalin onwards, the Russians have always fought the Chinese in one way or another over natural resources in the border regions. Both Russia and China have internal problems which will result in change. Power is not a given fact. You need to fight to keep it. Every day.
Putin is indeed the new czar. But only for so long. If the oil runs out, or the prices go below a certain level, he will have a problem. Furthermore, Russians as a people are dying out. Fast.
Putin is indeed the new czar. But only for so long. If the oil runs out, or the prices go below a certain level, he will have a problem. Furthermore, Russians as a people are dying out. Fast.
I didn't say they are friends, but that they share similar mentality when it comes to that "we love strong rulers" due to they hystorical development
if oil runs out they have natural gas, timber and all possible metals one could need, so i don't think they should worry about natural resources running out. they are the last ones that will have that problem :D
as for them dying out fast, it's a problem for all european nations. most of rich eu countries get steady income of foreigners that help them stay with new population bigger than mortality rate, but in that process they are paying the price of losing their old national identity and forming a new one
(edited)
if oil runs out they have natural gas, timber and all possible metals one could need, so i don't think they should worry about natural resources running out. they are the last ones that will have that problem :D
as for them dying out fast, it's a problem for all european nations. most of rich eu countries get steady income of foreigners that help them stay with new population bigger than mortality rate, but in that process they are paying the price of losing their old national identity and forming a new one
(edited)
if oil runs out they have natural gas, timber and all possible metals one could need, so i don't think they should worry about natural resources running out. they are the last ones that will have that problem :D
On the contrary, Russia lives from the sales. Quite literally. Take that away and Russia will implode.
as for them dying out fast, it's a problem for all european nations.
Not really. Russia isn't just dying out, the males are killing themselves in an unprecedented rate. If you see the numbers, you will be scared. Most EU countries are stabilising. Some aren't, but in the end it's the sixties generation that is warping the figures. That will be over in 20 years from now. The Russian troubles are really different. It's quite interesting to see what will happen.
On the contrary, Russia lives from the sales. Quite literally. Take that away and Russia will implode.
i just said that i don't see them running out of resources. so they really need not to worry about "taking that away->implode" factor as there is no way for someone to take that away from then other than to attack and conquer siberian, near caspian and far east regions :)
russians are very emotional people so i guess whole 90's situation really struck them. still i have no doubts that a nation that gave so much to the world and managed to rise itself from very very bad moments will rise once again an take it's place as one of worlds top nations
i just said that i don't see them running out of resources. so they really need not to worry about "taking that away->implode" factor as there is no way for someone to take that away from then other than to attack and conquer siberian, near caspian and far east regions :)
russians are very emotional people so i guess whole 90's situation really struck them. still i have no doubts that a nation that gave so much to the world and managed to rise itself from very very bad moments will rise once again an take it's place as one of worlds top nations