Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

specifically the far-reaching concessions to the Muslims



which concessions?

Of course muslim culture don't belong to Europe.

Ever heard of a country called Spain? Perhaps you might also have heard of Croatia and other South Balkan countries - all have been Islamic for a very long time.

Spain are Islamic? I could imagine France being populated by a fair few Muslims, but Spain?

Learn something new every day :)

I'm talking about the (early) middle ages. Spain has a very marked Islamic history. The thing is, Islamic culture has been a part of Europe from much the same time Europe came into being. When the Ottoman empire disintegrated, Islam retreated to the fringes of Europe, but it never left completely. There also has been a continious interaction between Western - Europe and Eastern - Europe. It's a complete farce to conside the whole of Europe as a single 'Christian' entity. Not only are different Christian sects in conflict to this very day, but Catholicism and Protestantism have had very different influences. Europe is conglomerate of very different countries with different histories and different cultures.

funny, you've used 'different' 3 times one after another...;)

Edit: I see what you mean. Funny indeed. :D
(edited)

I mean the Christian roots of Europe and created in this way, the European civilization. Of course in Europe lived Muslims, Jews, Tatars and other various nations, but so what? I generally write about the phenomenon known as the European culture, which has nothing to do with Islam and radically different from the Islamic culture in Pakistan, Egypt and other countries.

@ dagama

which concessions?

Generally, there are no great things, but they get mad cause, etc. From the last days - released an official calendar of the European Union in 2011, a calendar, which lists all Muslim holidays and no Christian. That's funny, stupid, or pathetic?

Another thing - the art, and especially the book. Each of us knows the subject of books by such authors as Dan Brown and his epigones as Michel Benoit, Patrick Graham, Julia Navarro etc. This books are show the Church and the Christian religion in general, unfavorable, or very bad light. OK, we have freedom of speech and everyone can write a book based on the storyline which he like. But why such a "strange" is made that no one dared to write a thriller in which a negative proposal is Islam? Why did the author of this "masterpiece" as the "Cathedral of Barcelona" (and "Hand of Fatima"), who so happilly writes about the priests - rapists not write any book in which the heroine would be a Christian girl raped by a biological son of Muhammad? Is he afraid of something? And if he's afraid of - what?

I could mention a lot of such "small" things. And all these trifles make up the privileged position of Muslims in Europe, which is tantamount to discrimination against conservatives (especially Christians). And it does not have my permission

well the EU calendar also mentions jewish holydays, so i think you should blame Brussels on that one.

not write any book in which the heroine would be a Christian girl raped by a biological son of Muhammad?

I dont think there is a big market for a story like that, maybe some neonazis would like it i guess. Sorry for the Godwin.

So, every who read a books by Brown, Falcone (? author this "Cathedra in Barcelona" etc) and others is a Nazi Islamist, or Nazi Jew, or Nazi Atheist?
(edited)

"the European culture' does not exist. Each and every country has its own way. As Milan Kundera put it, whilst 'just' referring to a part of Europe: "the greteast variety within the smallest space". Egypt is a very poor example if you want to refer to fundamentalist Islam. It's actually harshly repressed by the current regime. Furthermore, you got to the point where you start diffirentiating between several kinds of Islamic 'cultures'. That's a step in the right direction. Now take one more: accept that people from a certain country with a certain religion are by no means fundamentalist by nature. It's a choice a select few make. they need to be dealt with, the countless others deserve to be respected and to be left in peace to pursue whatever happiness they may find.

Spain hower is quite a bad example imo. Those weren't Europeans imo. The Spanish were never muslims. Europe has christian roots and no muslim roots, you can't deny that. At least for Western Europe and a large part of Eastern Europe.

no, I have only read Dan Brown so i dont know the others. commented only on the Mohammeds
son scenario.

Of course, that European culture exists. It's such a culture in which the nobody shoot to the muslims, nobody put bombs under churches and woman can go alone to the store and vote in elections.
I purposely gave the example of Egypt, because he did not actually regarded as the country's fundamentalist, but it was in Egypt recently there has been attacks on Christians. The conclusion is that something what is not fundamentalism large-scale in Asia, may be fundamentalism in Europe culture.

@ Dagama

So - somebody read anty Christians thrillers is a normal reader thirsty for a sophisticated literature
And somebody who read anty muslims thrillers is a neonazi?

It's sound like a racism.
(edited)

Several centuries worth of interaction doesn't work for you? Let me assure you that Spain to this very day is heavily influenced by this cultural heritage. Neither can you say those first people weren't European. Europe still considered itself a part of the Roman Empire when Spain was taken over. Europe came slowly into being during the period of time the 'Spanish' (no such thing at this point in time; a heavy mixture of quite different peoples) were mostly Islamic as well. It's only because of later inquisition rounds and consequent myth that Spain became 'the most devout Catholic country'. It is through Spain that Europe came into effective contact with the classical Greek thinkers and the Arabic mathematicians. It's a commonly accepted historical idea that Europe was 'launched' through exactly these ideas. Europe as we know it today exists because of these Islamic fugitives who took over a state. And staid there for nearly 500 years.

It's such a culture in which the nobody shoot to the muslims, nobody put bombs under churches and woman can go alone to the store and vote in elections.

The same culture where in some countries women are barred effectively from abortions - even after a rape or in dire medical need. Where in some countries drug users are put away for years and in others even the sales of drugs is pretty much legal. The region where to this very day out of religious differences bombings and killings take place. Europe may have a lot in common, when you *really* look at the European countries, you will see enormous differences. At one point in time, people 'in the West' were looking very askance at Poland as this wasn't - and still is not to this very day - considered a true European country.

You allways talk about different points and not the one which is argued it seems to me.

No one is saying that muslim culture didnt have great impact in history and that there are open minded muslims too. Ofc they are people just like everyone else, but I and I think Company too, is not disputing that , but their attitude... well at least the majority that I met, you obviously met more of the other sort.

What Company and I are talking about is current happenings in the world and especially those who come here to europe, not history.

Btw a 1000 years ago islam was much more tolerant (in a way and bearing in mind worlds society at that time) nowadays. Lets hope muslim world will become more tolerant again, untill then we do have the right to ask their part too, if they want to live with us.

Just my 2 cents and nothing really more to add, time will show what will happen.