Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

There we have charles again; always attacking people in person, never have said a thing about it, but he eep sdoing it; maybe it is time Charles that I should complain and get you suspended from this sokker.org?
you are so pathetic with your so called free speech ....and for your example; yes you can make a list and say bla bl and so so, but try to do this in my face and will show you how i will react to people like you in person...that is the difference...
People like the eglish and the dutch have the right to throw out these extreme muslim ellements...
Aston thinks so and I do to, and we speak out for it; but then you start your personal hate camaign again; like I told here many times before if yourare leftwing, than terrorism and intimidation is allowed...all support for terrorist from our grounds are from leftwing people and parties...so that you know it.

When did I say I support terrorism? I tried to find it in my post but didn't find it .... or you must be trying to change my words but that wouldn't be fair, right? Or start about me supporting pedophiles and rapists even though this wasn't even the subject at all, also wouldn't be fair, right?

And I also didn't say only they have the right to speak out, you also have that right as you clearly show on this forum, without being arrested by the secret English police. But the moment we can decide who to shut up, I have not only you on that list, these terrorist supporters are also on it, don't worry. In fact, the moment it has anything to do with any religion they are on it, as being an absolute explicit non-believer.

And you can post examples on this forum of what happened to you or friends of yours, but I wasn't there to see if he acted normal and the others around you didn't. But wearing a sign with 'bin laden - rot in hell' maybe is a good wish but that moment he isn't the good guy, but just another loony who will be sure to make even more problems. You can try to bring this as normal behavior and unfair to be arrested for it, I think differently. I think it's ok idiots who try to make more problems are arrested. (And about hell, it's nothing more then a fable and wishing someone to go there just makes me laugh. Besides hell is just a weak copy of the Greek Mythological story of Hades, god of the Underworld, but ok ...)

And yeh, that's the downside of freedom of speech, the moment it aren't your ideals it's much more difficult to accept everyone has the same rights.

but try to do this in my face and will show you how i will react to people like you in person...that is the difference...

This is the last time I will answer to a post of yours, but this is interesting. Please let me know when and where in Utrecht and you can prove it ..........

i never said you support terrorism, just that you defend those who do support terrorism. Supporting terrorism and murder is against the law, so no, i'm not denying freedom of speech or anything, i'm saying the law should be applied, which it isn't being.

Why am i on your list of people 'who to shut up' are you some kind of fascist?
Do you not like people who want the law to be applied and dont want terrorist supporters to be allowed to support terrorism, celebrate terrorism and call for more terrorism?

If having such moral beliefs makes you not like me, then i am glad i do not know you and feel for your parents and children that you do not have such moral values.

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/j455/EDL1/?action=view¤t=248235_2009271480708_1511354104_32305499_336479_n.jpg There's one picture. There was a video of exactly what he did, but i cant find it now. Basically he stood near them (on his own) with the effigy shown in the picture. Because they support terrorists, it offended them, so he was arrested, and the terrorist supporters not, even though their signs offended and disgusted everyone else there. Where's the equality? Where's the fairness? Where's the justice? Where's the common sense?

Then I understood this comment of yours incorrect: So supporting terrorism is perfectly fine in your world? For me it's about the same as saying I support terrorism. And I don't know if supporting terrorism is a crime, I know donating money to terrorist organizations is or helping them, but if yelling on the streets a terrorist action was ok is also a crime, I really don't know. Yes, it is without respect if you ask me, but against the law?

I've read many of your posts in this topic and I often think you are wrong. And if 'the other is wrong' is enough reason to make the other shut up, then you are someone (and many others) I don't want to listen to. Has nothing to do with that 1 statement of your about law and supporting terrorism. Of course this is ridicules as it would mean only I am right and all others who think like me and the rest is wrong, but that's not how it is. Sure, I think my way of thinking and living my life as I do now is the right way or else I wouldn't be who I am, as anyone else does (I hope). Don't think many people would say, 'I think this is the right thing to do, but I act completely the opposite', that would be really strange.
And asking me if I'm a fascist while you say others should not have the right to say what they think ... that's the world up side down ;)

And what moral believes of mine you think makes me not to like you?
And don't worry, you don't have to feel bad for anyone close to me, they all know me for who I am and they like that :) I can say everything I believe in to anyone and everywhere I want without getting into a fight because I do not preach hatred and differences, except when it are racists or other unpleasant extremists, as there is a possibility they will feel a distaste or aversion of what I believe is important in life.

I can't open your picture, The action that you were trying to perform has failed. But it's a picture of the EDL ... then I have a question. Was it a legal demonstration or just a spontaneous gathering of these, as you call them, terrorist supporters?
And your last few questions are just words to me. It's a bit acting like the victim and I don't like that if people do that. Over-dramatize 1 example and forget the other 1000+ times justice was served.

Is freedom of speech in this age could possibly be limited ?
Evey child with a keyboard and a few bucks, could say and post what ever he wants. I dont think there should be almost no limitations on free speech since it has lacks logic.

I do think Europe should stop letting every group has its own agendas and ethnic aspirations. We should all learn the same values and same values should be inflected on all. Jokes about Muhamad should be bared, same as jokes against every sacred dude, who did or did not exist.

I dont know how it is in Europe, but in Israel some people can go through their all life with out learning Hebrew, just speaking Arabic.
It damages their chances of mixing with the general society, I think at list public school should teach in the native tongue, in Germany it should be German, in England it should be English and in Israel it should be Hebrew.

You cant stop their mosques to spread hatred, America has proven that, but you can educate them when they are young about freedom of speech, democracy and the importance of life.


btw, stop getting so personal :)

Which could be the common values you expreess as universal please ?

Freedom of speech, religious restraint and respecting religious believes of the other, democracy, tolerance, sanctity of life, truth worthy, respecting your own country and its way of governing, police and the rest of it.
Of course It also mean that a kid when he hears he should be a Shahid and do Jihad, it will take a while before he would think its OK to kill another human being, just for the fact he is an infidel.

There are many other values to be added, and sure, I know its what an atheist would promote, but I think its important we would protect our way of life as well.
You cant stop free speech but you can stop those who hear it from thinking it make since.

good people and bad terrorists, how funny this is :).
Why are terrorists called terrorists? Why they are bad or what :)?

It is just situation when there is a war and there is one who "win" because of stronger army and the other one who lose. Terrorists are that one who lose but refuse capitulate. they are continuing in the war but without army and heavy guns, they are using weaker guns and frightening way of war. So this is reason why we call them terrorists? we crush somebody but we are angry that they refuse capitulate. that is all about terrorists.

of course if they are doing ugly attacks just for money or personal bonus or for some wierd or mad goal then I can call them terrorists too.

please make lists of these groups which you all here consider as terrorists.

You cant stop free speech but you can stop those who hear it from thinking it make since.

Sure you can. You shouldn't though.

I wonder what is freedom of speech. I fully support it, but I realize that different people see it in differnt ways.

In many places around the world, people are entitles not only to say what they want, the culture allows them to also THINK what they want.
When people genuinely believe in freedom, then there is no problem with freedom of speech, and nothing really happens to anyone who says anything.

However when people who do not really support freedom of speech, use it, they are actually invading the local culture's territory and spoil the basic principals. They are taking advantage of other people tolerance to promote their manifest, to say the least.

People who loudly support terrorism are free to speak, but I have all reasons to suspect thet beyond the scenes they are actively "convincing" other people to follow them, maybe encourage them to join terror activities.

So where does the freedom of speech end, and when do we have to watch out?

It so happens that most of the terrorism is related to muslim origins.

It also apparent that muslims are very sensitive about freedom of speech - of others, or when it is muslim related.

So supporting terrorism using freedom of speech, and preventing freedom of speech from others is not a funny paradox it is pure hipochracy.

Not to forget Charles Hill here that in the same post promotes freedom of speech and calls other people to shut up.

a) That wasnt saying you support terrorism, it was saying you believe it is okay to support terrorism.
b) terrorism act 2000, section 1 parts 1c and 4c. Plus that group has numerous links to actual terrorists, such as those terrorists actually being full on members of the group under previous names, so yes, it is very illegal.
c) How am i wrong? Prove i am wrong, because i can always prove i am right, when asked for the evidence.
d) Yes, i am asking you if you are a fascist, you have a list of people who should be silenced, who havent broken the law. I only ask for those who blatantly break the law and incite hatred and promote murder to be silenced, as they should be, by law.
e) Your belief that people should be allowed to promote & support terrorism, whilst breaking the law. And your belief that lots of people should be silenced and have their rights taken away from them, even though they abide by the laws.
f) so you do preach hatred then you hypocrite, just because you wrongly believe someone is a 'racist'. That doesnt make you right, especially when you cant back it up. Prove i am a racist?
g) Yes, it was a legal demonstration. We notified the police and held our peaceful demonstration and followed their instructions. Unlike the muslim extremists who hospitalised a young lad of about 16, fought with police and didnt notify the police of their intentions formally.

Just thought I'd mention he's talking about the possibility of 'ignoring' someone in SK, not RL. I'm sorry, but I thought that was clear.

But the moment we can decide who to shut up, I have not only you on that list, these terrorist supporters are also on it, don't worry

Hardly, unless the poppy burners and the terrorist supporters we were talking about are on Sokker...

So where does the freedom of speech end, and when do we have to watch out?

Right there where someone else's rights are being violated. So for instance threatening and calls for violence are outside free speech.