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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
I cannot believe it. I completely agree with a text of yours. Miracles do happen :p
(your text about Kosovo at 12:17:58)
(your text about Kosovo at 12:17:58)
1. Slovenia have its own state with deported 10.000 Serbs from its teritory
2. Croatia have its own state with ethic cleaned 300.000 Serbs from its teritory.
3. Kosovo dont have its own state, but its ethic cleaned from 200.000 Serbs from its teritory.
4. Serbia have its own state without ethnic cleaning of any nation.
Any reliable source on this?
2. Croatia have its own state with ethic cleaned 300.000 Serbs from its teritory.
3. Kosovo dont have its own state, but its ethic cleaned from 200.000 Serbs from its teritory.
4. Serbia have its own state without ethnic cleaning of any nation.
Any reliable source on this?
It is nonsense and it is irrelevant for this discussion. You are using WW2 victims numbers and my nationality as arguments in a discussion whether Serbs should accept that they lost Kosovo. That's just complete madness as el pupe already wrote.
I have explained to you here that I am not advising you something that I would not myself also do but you have obviously ingored that fact. You mentioned Istra and Istra is a perfect example. I would let Istra go from Croatia if more than 50% of Istrians would strongly want that for a longer period of time. Why keep unsatisfied population in a country they don't want to be in? There is no point in that.
But Istra will never do that. Everything is bilingual in Istria and they are free to express their Italian identity in Croatia. That is why they will never want out of Croatia. People don't tend to betray people that are nice to them. Albanians in Kosovo had to organise univerisities in Albanian in their basements during the 90s not to mention other horrible life conditions. It's no wonder they want out of Serbia. I would do the same in their place. Also, I myself would consider living in independent Kosovo. But Kosovo as it was during Serbian government I would run away from like hell.
I have explained to you here that I am not advising you something that I would not myself also do but you have obviously ingored that fact. You mentioned Istra and Istra is a perfect example. I would let Istra go from Croatia if more than 50% of Istrians would strongly want that for a longer period of time. Why keep unsatisfied population in a country they don't want to be in? There is no point in that.
But Istra will never do that. Everything is bilingual in Istria and they are free to express their Italian identity in Croatia. That is why they will never want out of Croatia. People don't tend to betray people that are nice to them. Albanians in Kosovo had to organise univerisities in Albanian in their basements during the 90s not to mention other horrible life conditions. It's no wonder they want out of Serbia. I would do the same in their place. Also, I myself would consider living in independent Kosovo. But Kosovo as it was during Serbian government I would run away from like hell.
I cannot believe it. I completely agree with a text of yours. Miracles do happen :p
I actually agree with you on most points although our viewpoints immediately diverge as soon as we reach religion. It is a rare case for me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I started as an atheist and you as a christian and then we both changed teams in the meantime. :p
(edited)
I actually agree with you on most points although our viewpoints immediately diverge as soon as we reach religion. It is a rare case for me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I started as an atheist and you as a christian and then we both changed teams in the meantime. :p
(edited)
They meet already all your conditions :), so if it were as you think EU would have maybe ten new states in one year and later every big town would be a state.
Crazy..
Crazy..
You make predictions you cannot make hard, so I can just ignore your predictions.
I'd just want to make clear that nationalism isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's what you make from it that makes it a good or a bad thing. Nationalism can be based on liberal ideas. It is state nationalism that is a bad thing.
I do not think.
I believe that every time you decide what is good or bad according to from where it comes you are doing a stupid statement!
I think that being proud of my country, my ideas, my religion, my territory, my people is not wrong in itself..
it gets wrong when you decide that other people are worst, enemies, other places ugliest than your!
Being proud of yourself is something natural, beliving to be in any way better is stupid!
In east europe I see a lot of stupid people talkin about: God, family, homeland..
but what this mean really?
It means hate for everything and everyone that's different than me..
This is the new wave of nationalism is getting bigger in Europe, and as it happens in WW2, with the economical crisys growing, and the people needing enemies..
...it's a firestarter for wars!
I do not think.
I believe that every time you decide what is good or bad according to from where it comes you are doing a stupid statement!
I think that being proud of my country, my ideas, my religion, my territory, my people is not wrong in itself..
it gets wrong when you decide that other people are worst, enemies, other places ugliest than your!
Being proud of yourself is something natural, beliving to be in any way better is stupid!
In east europe I see a lot of stupid people talkin about: God, family, homeland..
but what this mean really?
It means hate for everything and everyone that's different than me..
This is the new wave of nationalism is getting bigger in Europe, and as it happens in WW2, with the economical crisys growing, and the people needing enemies..
...it's a firestarter for wars!
I think that being proud of my country, my ideas, my religion, my territory, my people is not wrong in itself..
it gets wrong when you decide that other people are worst, enemies, other places ugliest than your!
That's my point. My nationalism has nothing to do with enemies or people that are worse. My nationalism is about making similarities between 1) the people and 2) the state, the democratic system, the organisation of the society. Those similarities are missing in Belgium. It's about putting the decision-making on the right level. As there is no Belgian people (there are only the Flemish people and the Walloon people). There are no Belgian media. Only Flemish and Walloon TV and newspapers. There is no Belgian democracy. Only Flemish and Walloon parties. Then why retaining Belgium?
You really think this is an ideology based on superiority of peoples, enemies, being better than the rest? No, it isn't. Therefore, I ask you to not put all nationalisms in the same corner. Just like you don't put all socialisms in the same corner. The socialism of today is not comparable to the socialism of Stalin. Luckily.
Referring to WW2 just shows me that you don't know this kind of nationalism, that is not based on excluding people or being better than the others. I want a good relationship with the Walloon people, but that is no longer possible within the Belgian states. Better a good friendship than a bad marriage. And I don't want war, I'm a democrat and a pacifist.
it gets wrong when you decide that other people are worst, enemies, other places ugliest than your!
That's my point. My nationalism has nothing to do with enemies or people that are worse. My nationalism is about making similarities between 1) the people and 2) the state, the democratic system, the organisation of the society. Those similarities are missing in Belgium. It's about putting the decision-making on the right level. As there is no Belgian people (there are only the Flemish people and the Walloon people). There are no Belgian media. Only Flemish and Walloon TV and newspapers. There is no Belgian democracy. Only Flemish and Walloon parties. Then why retaining Belgium?
You really think this is an ideology based on superiority of peoples, enemies, being better than the rest? No, it isn't. Therefore, I ask you to not put all nationalisms in the same corner. Just like you don't put all socialisms in the same corner. The socialism of today is not comparable to the socialism of Stalin. Luckily.
Referring to WW2 just shows me that you don't know this kind of nationalism, that is not based on excluding people or being better than the others. I want a good relationship with the Walloon people, but that is no longer possible within the Belgian states. Better a good friendship than a bad marriage. And I don't want war, I'm a democrat and a pacifist.
just I can count 3-4 new states :)
but it would be more...
but it would be more...
pacifist who support wars in another states, really nice :) !
I agree with you,
the point is the meaning we give to the words..
I use nationalism in the worse sense, you the better, the differences are evident!
the point is the meaning we give to the words..
I use nationalism in the worse sense, you the better, the differences are evident!
Yeah? What states?
Three largest regions with a substantial nationalist movement:
- Flanders: minority wants independence
- Scotland: minority wants independence
- Catalonia: I don't really know
Three largest regions with a substantial nationalist movement:
- Flanders: minority wants independence
- Scotland: minority wants independence
- Catalonia: I don't really know
That is the difference between ethnic nationalism and liberal / civic nationalism.
I can't understand why serbian don't understand they are a colony of Russia, wich government can decide every day of the exsistence of gov, your indipendence, your economics.. a so on..
This is most ridiculous quote ever:)
the point is simple,
right or wrong you lose the war,
YOU MUST ACCEPT IT!!!!
So as any losers you must accept winner to take decisions!
And this is next one. So when in 1939 Hitler and Stalin divided Poland for Germany and the USSR, we had to recognize that "this is good", "Do not fight it", etc?
I can't understand why they feed with their stupid nationalism a war that is over, instead of feeding a process o pacification in the area that will be the only way to get some durable peace.
Next one. Albanians are stealing Serbs a piece of territory and they have to sit quietly? Nonsense.
I can't understand why you don't realize what it matters most.. to live freely, with freedom of choice on your gov, on your tax, freedom of movement etc..
They do it. They fight for their brothers, who for years lived in Yugoslavia, then Serbia and suddenly in a hostile Kosovo.
The Serbs are probably the last European nation, which has its own character. Unfortunately, the Poles lose it slowly, under pressure from anti-Polish media, or lobby.
The Serbian nation is the future of Europe.
This is most ridiculous quote ever:)
the point is simple,
right or wrong you lose the war,
YOU MUST ACCEPT IT!!!!
So as any losers you must accept winner to take decisions!
And this is next one. So when in 1939 Hitler and Stalin divided Poland for Germany and the USSR, we had to recognize that "this is good", "Do not fight it", etc?
I can't understand why they feed with their stupid nationalism a war that is over, instead of feeding a process o pacification in the area that will be the only way to get some durable peace.
Next one. Albanians are stealing Serbs a piece of territory and they have to sit quietly? Nonsense.
I can't understand why you don't realize what it matters most.. to live freely, with freedom of choice on your gov, on your tax, freedom of movement etc..
They do it. They fight for their brothers, who for years lived in Yugoslavia, then Serbia and suddenly in a hostile Kosovo.
The Serbs are probably the last European nation, which has its own character. Unfortunately, the Poles lose it slowly, under pressure from anti-Polish media, or lobby.
The Serbian nation is the future of Europe.
Silesia and East-Prussia were historic German regions,
No. History os Silesia is more complicated. Different parts of the territory of Silesia at different times belonged to the Polish, German, or Bohemia and Moravia. You can not say that Silesia is a native German region.
Prussia was the land of the Prussian population, which until the 13th century had nothing to do with Germany. Then the nation was partly conquered and Germanized by the Teutonic Knights. But again - these lands passed into the hands of the Poland and same Prussia in the 16th century became the state subordinate to Poland.
Prussia is a prussians land, not a German. Or, if you want - the same German as Polish.
No. History os Silesia is more complicated. Different parts of the territory of Silesia at different times belonged to the Polish, German, or Bohemia and Moravia. You can not say that Silesia is a native German region.
Prussia was the land of the Prussian population, which until the 13th century had nothing to do with Germany. Then the nation was partly conquered and Germanized by the Teutonic Knights. But again - these lands passed into the hands of the Poland and same Prussia in the 16th century became the state subordinate to Poland.
Prussia is a prussians land, not a German. Or, if you want - the same German as Polish.
+New Hungary in Slovakia
but I dont doubt that there is much more groups which would like have independence if it is real.
You forgot that if this will be possible, every region with health economy will wants have independence. So maybe Bratislava region in Slovakia and next tens in another state....
Also religion will have important role, for example it will not take long time to create islam state in France and so....
but I dont doubt that there is much more groups which would like have independence if it is real.
You forgot that if this will be possible, every region with health economy will wants have independence. So maybe Bratislava region in Slovakia and next tens in another state....
Also religion will have important role, for example it will not take long time to create islam state in France and so....