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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
When ever something happens in the Middle-East, regardless of the topic, someone always blames the situation on Israel and/or the Settlements, even if it is completely unrelated.
Also, when it's time to condem Israel for whatever fabricated atrocities it has committed, there are numerous threads opened up (not just in this forum) while when people die like flies in other countries, by awful regimes, no one cares...
I was just showing my support for hypocricy :)
Also, when it's time to condem Israel for whatever fabricated atrocities it has committed, there are numerous threads opened up (not just in this forum) while when people die like flies in other countries, by awful regimes, no one cares...
I was just showing my support for hypocricy :)
Well, not really true. The crimes constantly committed by isreal aren't in the news that often, almost never in fact. But the Middle-East is constantly in the Dutch news, many countries interfered (US, Europe, Arab Liga) and have spend hundreds of millions already to help the freedom-fighters (or rebels, as others call them). If the same amount of money, manpower and time was spend to protect the rights of Palestine, the wall and the settlements would never been build for example. Many countries did want to solve it problems in your country, but then there are the US Veto's ...
So I think your post is a bit like, 'everyone hates us' and drowning in self pity, while in fact, almost no other country in the world can commit so many crimes against humanity and get away with it as israel.
Oh, to show you how wrong you are: www.nu.nl (1 of the most visited Dutch news sites): Arabische Lente (Arab Spring) on the left site. The situation in the Middle-East has it's own page, even printed bold and 1 of the highest in the list, even above the financial crisis ;)
(edited)
So I think your post is a bit like, 'everyone hates us' and drowning in self pity, while in fact, almost no other country in the world can commit so many crimes against humanity and get away with it as israel.
Oh, to show you how wrong you are: www.nu.nl (1 of the most visited Dutch news sites): Arabische Lente (Arab Spring) on the left site. The situation in the Middle-East has it's own page, even printed bold and 1 of the highest in the list, even above the financial crisis ;)
(edited)
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has also recently warned the West against any 'Libya-style' military intervention in Syria.
:-)
:-)
You ahd to go and destroy a perfrctly good atmosphere with your cheap hate rhetoric. And here I thought we were starting to get along. My post was not incitement for you to start your rant again.
You sound like one of those marching in a Hamas or Hezbollah parade chanting 'Death to Israel' and burning American flags. You should be more cautious when using words like "Crimes", also when you without any reasoning combine them with questionable statements about Europe spending millions to help Freedom fighters. We both know it's not true, niether in the context of the first part of the sentence, nor relating to the media coverage and mostly not to my initial point about the hypocricy amongst many people - like you - about the Syrian or Egyptian killings.
Your media (ie general media, not yours Charles) is sentationlist and driven by greed and over the years have been proven again and again to be mislead or intentionally wrong. Here's an example;
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/ you should read this and develop a sense of crticism. I wonder if you believe everything the media says when things get closer to home and you know better than some stupid reporter who portrayed a picture that you know is misleading.
Regarding the "crimes" Israel commits on daily basis, you should also stop your poster slogans, using words like 'crimes', 'atrocities' and 'apartheid' without realising what stands behind it. Your hero from not so long ago - Richard Goldstone - has already retracted his famous report, claiming he was duped and unaware of the facts - [just like you] - and here's the latest installment from him. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel-and-the-apartheid-slander.html?_r=1
I'm surprised how such a seemingly intelligent person with such an open mind - as seen in other topics - tends to have such an unquestioning stance when it comes to one subject, though if it is any comfort to you, this blindness attacks many people, most of whom at some point grow wise. You don't need to show me how the The Arab Spring get attention in some news site... it's their job. I was talking about people's reaction and caring when it came to these subjects. Besides... this Arab Spring is a total joke. The situation in Egypt is worse then it was during Mubarak's time - or so claim the people in the street. The situation in Tunisia is growing dire after the victory of their local version of more religious party and Syria... has already killed more of its own poeple than Israel killed Palestinians in the last 10 years.
You can always safely blame the mighty US for all the world woes, but we all know what part of it is blamed on envy of the most successful boy in class - most of it. You really think that the evil Americans and their Zionist proxies plot and scheme together to take over the world? Do you really believe, in your heart, that it was all Israel's anti-UN/peace attitude which brought about all the trouble? I think you know who is rightbut you have sunk so deep into the rhetoric and feeling that you are really supporting David against Golaith, that it is impossible for you to take a step back and rethink your stance.
Here's asomething to finish this post, which I wasn't even intending to go back into in the first place. I hope you find it interesting... of course only if you have read the articles I posted above... you're not that lazy, right? ;-)
[youtube]O7ByJb7QQ9U[/youtube]
(edited)
You sound like one of those marching in a Hamas or Hezbollah parade chanting 'Death to Israel' and burning American flags. You should be more cautious when using words like "Crimes", also when you without any reasoning combine them with questionable statements about Europe spending millions to help Freedom fighters. We both know it's not true, niether in the context of the first part of the sentence, nor relating to the media coverage and mostly not to my initial point about the hypocricy amongst many people - like you - about the Syrian or Egyptian killings.
Your media (ie general media, not yours Charles) is sentationlist and driven by greed and over the years have been proven again and again to be mislead or intentionally wrong. Here's an example;
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/ you should read this and develop a sense of crticism. I wonder if you believe everything the media says when things get closer to home and you know better than some stupid reporter who portrayed a picture that you know is misleading.
Regarding the "crimes" Israel commits on daily basis, you should also stop your poster slogans, using words like 'crimes', 'atrocities' and 'apartheid' without realising what stands behind it. Your hero from not so long ago - Richard Goldstone - has already retracted his famous report, claiming he was duped and unaware of the facts - [just like you] - and here's the latest installment from him. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel-and-the-apartheid-slander.html?_r=1
I'm surprised how such a seemingly intelligent person with such an open mind - as seen in other topics - tends to have such an unquestioning stance when it comes to one subject, though if it is any comfort to you, this blindness attacks many people, most of whom at some point grow wise. You don't need to show me how the The Arab Spring get attention in some news site... it's their job. I was talking about people's reaction and caring when it came to these subjects. Besides... this Arab Spring is a total joke. The situation in Egypt is worse then it was during Mubarak's time - or so claim the people in the street. The situation in Tunisia is growing dire after the victory of their local version of more religious party and Syria... has already killed more of its own poeple than Israel killed Palestinians in the last 10 years.
You can always safely blame the mighty US for all the world woes, but we all know what part of it is blamed on envy of the most successful boy in class - most of it. You really think that the evil Americans and their Zionist proxies plot and scheme together to take over the world? Do you really believe, in your heart, that it was all Israel's anti-UN/peace attitude which brought about all the trouble? I think you know who is rightbut you have sunk so deep into the rhetoric and feeling that you are really supporting David against Golaith, that it is impossible for you to take a step back and rethink your stance.
Here's asomething to finish this post, which I wasn't even intending to go back into in the first place. I hope you find it interesting... of course only if you have read the articles I posted above... you're not that lazy, right? ;-)
[youtube]O7ByJb7QQ9U[/youtube]
(edited)
LOL.
I find unbeliavable that people in israel try to defend their government crimes..
(yes, CRIMES! there a so much proves of it, that is funny how you think to demonstrate innocence with that link and other stories)
And i find really sad that someone can use other deaths, and other bad stories trying to get some point in his war.. (like kids: "He started!!!" or "He did worst!!!"),
does someone else's crime make your crimes better??
I find unbeliavable that people in israel try to defend their government crimes..
(yes, CRIMES! there a so much proves of it, that is funny how you think to demonstrate innocence with that link and other stories)
And i find really sad that someone can use other deaths, and other bad stories trying to get some point in his war.. (like kids: "He started!!!" or "He did worst!!!"),
does someone else's crime make your crimes better??
:)
Nobody is using crimes from one country to make other countries look better. If you have a reading comprehension problem, maybe you should avoid such debates, let alone do consider going back to school. If you fail to understand what we are talking about then please shut up and go practice your ignorance elsewhere.
The debate was not about Israel. It was about the way people make a lot of fuss discussing certain issues and then ignore very similar issues, because they don't care. Everyone talks about Steve Jobs dying, but no one cares about thousands of children dying every day in Africa. Someone will start a thread about Steve Jobs in almost every Forum, but don't give a shit about the other issue.
Poeple will cry about the American "war crimes" in Iraq, but completely ignore similar and worse crimes in Chechniya by the Russians or by the Turks on Kurds. I made the same point about the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
Poeple will start threads when a Palestinian dies, yet how many threads have you seen about the daily killings in Syria?
The point of the discussion was about people's behaviour in choice of threads or topics.
That's for starters.
The on-going debate between Charles Hill and me about Israel is an old issue and we pretty much know where the other stand.
You my little ignorant Italian... you do not even understand the topic of the discussion, how can you tell what are real crimes and what are not? It's like debating a 5 year old... at least Charles Hill can make a post and have some reasoning behind his words. I think it's best you let the adults discuss things and stop embarassing yourself.
Nobody is using crimes from one country to make other countries look better. If you have a reading comprehension problem, maybe you should avoid such debates, let alone do consider going back to school. If you fail to understand what we are talking about then please shut up and go practice your ignorance elsewhere.
The debate was not about Israel. It was about the way people make a lot of fuss discussing certain issues and then ignore very similar issues, because they don't care. Everyone talks about Steve Jobs dying, but no one cares about thousands of children dying every day in Africa. Someone will start a thread about Steve Jobs in almost every Forum, but don't give a shit about the other issue.
Poeple will cry about the American "war crimes" in Iraq, but completely ignore similar and worse crimes in Chechniya by the Russians or by the Turks on Kurds. I made the same point about the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
Poeple will start threads when a Palestinian dies, yet how many threads have you seen about the daily killings in Syria?
The point of the discussion was about people's behaviour in choice of threads or topics.
That's for starters.
The on-going debate between Charles Hill and me about Israel is an old issue and we pretty much know where the other stand.
You my little ignorant Italian... you do not even understand the topic of the discussion, how can you tell what are real crimes and what are not? It's like debating a 5 year old... at least Charles Hill can make a post and have some reasoning behind his words. I think it's best you let the adults discuss things and stop embarassing yourself.
You my little ignorant Italian...
learn education before posting guy..
I undersood everything, then I said what I think.
You and charles can say what you prefer, so I.
Without any patent from you.
If you care to respond IT, I will read (as I do always with everyone), if you don't, I'll live happily anyway!
for the rest remember that the used words define who use them!
learn education before posting guy..
I undersood everything, then I said what I think.
You and charles can say what you prefer, so I.
Without any patent from you.
If you care to respond IT, I will read (as I do always with everyone), if you don't, I'll live happily anyway!
for the rest remember that the used words define who use them!
The problem is, for a native english speaker such as myself, that post you just made makes little sense.
This means that you may find offense where none is there and find arguments where there are none. This is a problem when communicating.
This means that you may find offense where none is there and find arguments where there are none. This is a problem when communicating.
This means that you may find offense where none is there and find arguments where there are none. This is a problem when communicating.
Well, I admit my english isn't good enough!
But what I read in my posts is evident!
Anyway if someting isn't comprehensible, just ask!
Well, I admit my english isn't good enough!
But what I read in my posts is evident!
Anyway if someting isn't comprehensible, just ask!
Well, we can discuss this, but as it will be the same problem as discussing religion with Sasha76, I don't think it will change anything ;) And, also the same as what I write to Sasha76, it's not that I 'attack' you, but the situation as it is. And if this feels as a personal attack I can't do anything about that.
And I can even continue with the link to the religion topic, I have grown up in a country that gave israel 12 points with the Eurovision Song Contest and they gave us 12 points (friends), and been taught, told, and showed how great it is israel fought all the enemy neighbors that attacked and israel won, that the palestinians are the problem and absolutely not israel, that israel is the victim in this conflict, that israel has the right to own all of the country etc (just as during that time I've been to catholic primary school till the age of 12), but from the moment I was able to link this info, I started to question it as I saw things that didn't made sense, something was missing and I started to understand what it was: the other side of it all ;) And because I don't get into a personal fight of pride, feeling betrayal, defending the enemy etc as it's not my country and I do have an open-mind so I don't hold on to what I've been taught, told etc, and love information and link it together of all things I know and remember, made it possible for me to make a picture of the situation that do make sense.
I don't think you are able to really do this as it will become that personal fight. You are been taught the same as me, but probably a 1000+ times more personal (think of the child who's being indoctrinated into believing). The moment you are able to let go of this, discussing it will become possible. I don't think that all I know is without any question all true, but there is to many prove that I found myself, so I know I can't be that completely wrong ;)
The only thing that I can do is ask you some open questions so you have to read both sides.
- How many israeli settlements and settlers are there today (included those that now live within the new wall), and how many 20 years ago?
- How many property of israeli is destroyed to build the wall and how many of palestinians?
- How many water springs do israeli and palestinians have access too and how many 20 years ago?
- How many israeli settlers are arrested for attacking palestinians and how many palestinians for attacking settlers?
- How many km's can israeli travel trough israel, west bank and gaza without being detained by a roadblock and how many km's is this for palestinians?
- How long does it take for an israeli and palestinian to travel from A to B with some roadblocks in between?
- Does every israeli and palestinian have the same right to use the highways?
- What about Hebron?
- How many veto's did the US used to prevent investigations for military actions of israel, condemning israel for military actions and to prevent help for palestina the last 10 years? Or maybe easier, how many veto's did the US use the last 10 years in favor of israel and what are the most common subject these veto's are used for?
And I can ask a lot more questions, but the answers will all raise the same kind of new questions :) I'm not going to write down what these questions will be, people that are interested will understand the moment they start finding the answers to the questions that I posted.
And those links; the 'Israel and the Apartheid Slander' is not as I see it, but that won't surprise you. Also it's to much 'we do, their fold'. And the Reuters link is posted in this forum before if I remember correctly, and I know that it happened and that's not good to Photoshop pictures as reality is gruesome enough. But using a few examples to downgrade all others that are real doesn't work for me, I'm a bit to smart for that and I think you are too :)
Edit: some little things :)
(edited)
(edited)
And I can even continue with the link to the religion topic, I have grown up in a country that gave israel 12 points with the Eurovision Song Contest and they gave us 12 points (friends), and been taught, told, and showed how great it is israel fought all the enemy neighbors that attacked and israel won, that the palestinians are the problem and absolutely not israel, that israel is the victim in this conflict, that israel has the right to own all of the country etc (just as during that time I've been to catholic primary school till the age of 12), but from the moment I was able to link this info, I started to question it as I saw things that didn't made sense, something was missing and I started to understand what it was: the other side of it all ;) And because I don't get into a personal fight of pride, feeling betrayal, defending the enemy etc as it's not my country and I do have an open-mind so I don't hold on to what I've been taught, told etc, and love information and link it together of all things I know and remember, made it possible for me to make a picture of the situation that do make sense.
I don't think you are able to really do this as it will become that personal fight. You are been taught the same as me, but probably a 1000+ times more personal (think of the child who's being indoctrinated into believing). The moment you are able to let go of this, discussing it will become possible. I don't think that all I know is without any question all true, but there is to many prove that I found myself, so I know I can't be that completely wrong ;)
The only thing that I can do is ask you some open questions so you have to read both sides.
- How many israeli settlements and settlers are there today (included those that now live within the new wall), and how many 20 years ago?
- How many property of israeli is destroyed to build the wall and how many of palestinians?
- How many water springs do israeli and palestinians have access too and how many 20 years ago?
- How many israeli settlers are arrested for attacking palestinians and how many palestinians for attacking settlers?
- How many km's can israeli travel trough israel, west bank and gaza without being detained by a roadblock and how many km's is this for palestinians?
- How long does it take for an israeli and palestinian to travel from A to B with some roadblocks in between?
- Does every israeli and palestinian have the same right to use the highways?
- What about Hebron?
- How many veto's did the US used to prevent investigations for military actions of israel, condemning israel for military actions and to prevent help for palestina the last 10 years? Or maybe easier, how many veto's did the US use the last 10 years in favor of israel and what are the most common subject these veto's are used for?
And I can ask a lot more questions, but the answers will all raise the same kind of new questions :) I'm not going to write down what these questions will be, people that are interested will understand the moment they start finding the answers to the questions that I posted.
And those links; the 'Israel and the Apartheid Slander' is not as I see it, but that won't surprise you. Also it's to much 'we do, their fold'. And the Reuters link is posted in this forum before if I remember correctly, and I know that it happened and that's not good to Photoshop pictures as reality is gruesome enough. But using a few examples to downgrade all others that are real doesn't work for me, I'm a bit to smart for that and I think you are too :)
Edit: some little things :)
(edited)
(edited)
That's a much better post from you, ie more careful wording, and I will gladly prepare an answer... on Thursday, when I have a day off. Please be patient. Thanks for the questions btw.
I will be wonder on your answer too. Especially on that question for two roads.
I saw picture about two roads, one for Isreals second for Palestinians and it was really disgusting. It can hardly believe that such a photo which I saw was real and not fake.... it was same like judes had in germany during WWII (special marks on clothes, special place for living...you know it better as me)
Legend on this photo is sad too.
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/cf_images/20051022/CMA902.gif
But I saw also real photos of that roads and one was nice, new and second was like for animals, very bad condition to be road.
I saw picture about two roads, one for Isreals second for Palestinians and it was really disgusting. It can hardly believe that such a photo which I saw was real and not fake.... it was same like judes had in germany during WWII (special marks on clothes, special place for living...you know it better as me)
Legend on this photo is sad too.
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/cf_images/20051022/CMA902.gif
But I saw also real photos of that roads and one was nice, new and second was like for animals, very bad condition to be road.
I read right now that there will be new voting rule in Israel, that for first time there will men and women vote separately during election. Can you check if this information is correct please?
Rumpil, this is a decision of an extremely religious community, in a specific neighborhood.
The absurd is that they do not recognize the authority of the state, but they do participate in elections to take advantage of democracy in a way that serves their interests.
You probably see such ridiculous behavior every where in the world.
It is absolutely not a general rule nor the way most of the population lives.
The absurd is that they do not recognize the authority of the state, but they do participate in elections to take advantage of democracy in a way that serves their interests.
You probably see such ridiculous behavior every where in the world.
It is absolutely not a general rule nor the way most of the population lives.