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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
I was talking about the 2 who called me a fool.
And you know what is typical, all info that comes out and doesn't fit the propaganda spread by the news and/or would never be accepted by the israeli ministry of information (equals ministry of propaganda and censorship!!), under the supervision of the Minister of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs, if it was made by some israeli journalist, is always considered wrong by the pro-israel side. Besides this minister there is also the Information Directorate to coordinate all contact with the international media and a minister for Diaspora, but correct me if I'm wrong.
This is an example of what this ministry is publishing and what they want you and others to tell the world: Together, we can make change the picture. You see the overwhelming comparisons with your posts looking at the propaganda text in Israel in the World Myth vs. Reality? Coincidence?
And you should give up if that's the goal of your posts to me, it is really an impossible mission. You are indoctrinated your whole life, in even the smallest things, so you simply can't tell me the whole honest story as you really believe it's not how it is. For example not understanding that different laws and punishments for different people in the same country is the same as apartheid. One of many examples: what is the punishments for you if you pretend to be a palestinian, and what is the punishment for a palestinian if he/she pretend to be an israeli?
2 last things of your other post:
I consider myself intelligent and experienced enough to do critical thinking,
Where you stop being critical (lookin at your posts) is where you should start being critical. But most probably this is impossible as I already wrote. Example: people who grow up in extreme religious families, communities, etc, will also almost never let go of this believe as it is imprinted to well, whatever the opposite part tells them. They will never be as open-minded as those who are not indoctrinated their whole life. Ofcourse they can change a little, but almost always only within and maybe a tiny bit outside that imprinted limits.
A last thing I can say about this is, just start wondering why someone like me and many like me, who have absolutely nothing to win with my stand of views and I, who grown up in a pro-israel country (yes the Netherlands is, just remember the 10 points with the Eurovision Song Contest politics during the 80's and 90's and maybe even before, and also many zionist politicians), is that critical and opposed to how israel is behaving at the moment. But the moment I write this down I'm wondering myself: why should you? ... in a war the enemy almost never cares about the other side and vise versa. The moment that happens, it becomes possibly the war really can end.
Anyway, I live where the news happen, I have more first hand information than you have.
No you don't. You don't live where the news happens, you live on the good side of the wall. If someone living in Hollywood or another good save place tells you he/she knows how it to live in a poor, unsave ghetto because their city has ghettos, you will laugh at that person. But you are saying exactly the same thing, but then all of the sudden it does make sense.
And you have more first hand information as I have? I think you see as much of the other side of the wall as I do and how they really have to live, or maybe even less because you don't want to believe/see what really happens. Just the same as that example I used above about the ghettos.
Anyway, you can't convince me just as I can't convince you. The only pitty is that you have a vote in your hand to make things change, I don't.
(edited)
And you know what is typical, all info that comes out and doesn't fit the propaganda spread by the news and/or would never be accepted by the israeli ministry of information (equals ministry of propaganda and censorship!!), under the supervision of the Minister of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs, if it was made by some israeli journalist, is always considered wrong by the pro-israel side. Besides this minister there is also the Information Directorate to coordinate all contact with the international media and a minister for Diaspora, but correct me if I'm wrong.
This is an example of what this ministry is publishing and what they want you and others to tell the world: Together, we can make change the picture. You see the overwhelming comparisons with your posts looking at the propaganda text in Israel in the World Myth vs. Reality? Coincidence?
And you should give up if that's the goal of your posts to me, it is really an impossible mission. You are indoctrinated your whole life, in even the smallest things, so you simply can't tell me the whole honest story as you really believe it's not how it is. For example not understanding that different laws and punishments for different people in the same country is the same as apartheid. One of many examples: what is the punishments for you if you pretend to be a palestinian, and what is the punishment for a palestinian if he/she pretend to be an israeli?
2 last things of your other post:
I consider myself intelligent and experienced enough to do critical thinking,
Where you stop being critical (lookin at your posts) is where you should start being critical. But most probably this is impossible as I already wrote. Example: people who grow up in extreme religious families, communities, etc, will also almost never let go of this believe as it is imprinted to well, whatever the opposite part tells them. They will never be as open-minded as those who are not indoctrinated their whole life. Ofcourse they can change a little, but almost always only within and maybe a tiny bit outside that imprinted limits.
A last thing I can say about this is, just start wondering why someone like me and many like me, who have absolutely nothing to win with my stand of views and I, who grown up in a pro-israel country (yes the Netherlands is, just remember the 10 points with the Eurovision Song Contest politics during the 80's and 90's and maybe even before, and also many zionist politicians), is that critical and opposed to how israel is behaving at the moment. But the moment I write this down I'm wondering myself: why should you? ... in a war the enemy almost never cares about the other side and vise versa. The moment that happens, it becomes possibly the war really can end.
Anyway, I live where the news happen, I have more first hand information than you have.
No you don't. You don't live where the news happens, you live on the good side of the wall. If someone living in Hollywood or another good save place tells you he/she knows how it to live in a poor, unsave ghetto because their city has ghettos, you will laugh at that person. But you are saying exactly the same thing, but then all of the sudden it does make sense.
And you have more first hand information as I have? I think you see as much of the other side of the wall as I do and how they really have to live, or maybe even less because you don't want to believe/see what really happens. Just the same as that example I used above about the ghettos.
Anyway, you can't convince me just as I can't convince you. The only pitty is that you have a vote in your hand to make things change, I don't.
(edited)
As words are not understood, here are pictures:
that happened a little bit after the muslim friday prayers, what a coincidence...
sometimes humour is the best way to deal with life
that happened a little bit after the muslim friday prayers, what a coincidence...
sometimes humour is the best way to deal with life
So something that is free available on the net via the UN, facts that are published in books and are obvious are propaganda?
I wonder what that bullshit is you are writing then?
I wonder what that bullshit is you are writing then?
I am pretty sure though you haven't read even half of what I have read about history etc, besides that my education is probably far superior (well not probably, it is).
So basically you kind of are amusing me, stupidity sometimes does that for me.
So basically you kind of are amusing me, stupidity sometimes does that for me.
btw. IF you ever want to read something from someone with knowledge about this world:
read something from him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scholl-Latour
He has his flukes and well I am also not the biggest of all fans of him. But for a good knowledge about this world especially the arabics he is probably the best one there is.
read something from him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scholl-Latour
He has his flukes and well I am also not the biggest of all fans of him. But for a good knowledge about this world especially the arabics he is probably the best one there is.
Gentlemen, kindly leave the ad hominem remarks at home.
both sides blinded by there own propaganda, debate is useless this way.
debate is useless this way.
That was also my last sentence to NoWhereMan :) And it's ok to agree people disagree, but indeed debating is useless after that.
That was also my last sentence to NoWhereMan :) And it's ok to agree people disagree, but indeed debating is useless after that.
never be accepted by the israeli ministry of information (equals ministry of propaganda and censorship!!), under the supervision of the Minister of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs, if it was made by some israeli journalist, is always considered wrong by the pro-israel side. Besides this minister there is also the Information Directorate to coordinate all contact with the international media and a minister for Diaspora, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Pure nonsense.
There is no ministry of information, and there is no minister of Public Diplomacy. The only censorship in Israel is military censorship that monitors confidential information and prevent leakage of sensitive issues. This is a practice in every army.
We in Israel get news from all over the world in real time, we have no limitation of sources, no one blocks internet sites (except for parental control - if parent elect to use it). Therefore your accusation that I cannot discriminate propaganda is either an insult to my intelligence or just extreme dishonesty in attempt to avoid my claims and facts.
Where you stop being critical (lookin at your posts) is where you should start being critical. But most probably this is impossible as I already wrote. Example: people who grow up in extreme religious families, communities, etc, will also almost never let go of this believe as it is imprinted to well, whatever the opposite part tells them. They will never be as open-minded as those who are not indoctrinated their whole life. Ofcourse they can change a little, but almost always only within and maybe a tiny bit outside that imprinted limits.
I already refered to your negative attitude which eliminates honest and clear debate.
The only thing I would add here is that I do have criticism on my country's mistakes, misbehavior, accidental or deliberate, pricncipal or coincident, lack of leadership and even cynical internal politics. At the same time, the fact is that Israel treats the other side in much more decent ways that it could have happened vice versa. Even the wall that you just condemned was built to prevent suicide human bombs. (and proved efficient).
You have never been (correct me if I am wrong) in either side of the wall, so you have no authority to tell me that all I know is false. You have the right to prefer to be fed by propaganda.
I meet real people from the other side very often. They arefree to arrive to my office or my home. I am not free to visit them.
Pure nonsense.
There is no ministry of information, and there is no minister of Public Diplomacy. The only censorship in Israel is military censorship that monitors confidential information and prevent leakage of sensitive issues. This is a practice in every army.
We in Israel get news from all over the world in real time, we have no limitation of sources, no one blocks internet sites (except for parental control - if parent elect to use it). Therefore your accusation that I cannot discriminate propaganda is either an insult to my intelligence or just extreme dishonesty in attempt to avoid my claims and facts.
Where you stop being critical (lookin at your posts) is where you should start being critical. But most probably this is impossible as I already wrote. Example: people who grow up in extreme religious families, communities, etc, will also almost never let go of this believe as it is imprinted to well, whatever the opposite part tells them. They will never be as open-minded as those who are not indoctrinated their whole life. Ofcourse they can change a little, but almost always only within and maybe a tiny bit outside that imprinted limits.
I already refered to your negative attitude which eliminates honest and clear debate.
The only thing I would add here is that I do have criticism on my country's mistakes, misbehavior, accidental or deliberate, pricncipal or coincident, lack of leadership and even cynical internal politics. At the same time, the fact is that Israel treats the other side in much more decent ways that it could have happened vice versa. Even the wall that you just condemned was built to prevent suicide human bombs. (and proved efficient).
You have never been (correct me if I am wrong) in either side of the wall, so you have no authority to tell me that all I know is false. You have the right to prefer to be fed by propaganda.
I meet real people from the other side very often. They arefree to arrive to my office or my home. I am not free to visit them.
NoWhereMan : It's truth A and yours is propaganda
Charles Hill : No, it's B and A is propaganda
Let's say the truth is a combination of A and B so AB:)
Charles Hill : No, it's B and A is propaganda
Let's say the truth is a combination of A and B so AB:)
I have absolutely no reason to come and visit your country (if only for economical reasons as I would have to spend money overthere and by that supporting an economy of a country which doesn't deserve a cent of my money at the moment).
oh my god, now israel have a real problem xD
oh my god, now israel have a real problem xD
Just one question... who is Israel buying guns from ?
I would like present Slovakia as a good producers of some mobile radar systems and we have also aircraft trainer system (something like expensive game on PC :-D) which use also US army in new conquered countries to train new pilots there.
Susan
This machine is good for dead bodies....
[url=http://www.evpu.sk/english/military-and-security-program]And this can help attacking from far
distanace but no rockets[/url]
Guys... can you give this information to your ministry of war/peace so our employment can grow too ?
Please dont buy it just from US, UK, Fr and Ger.
thx :-)
I would like present Slovakia as a good producers of some mobile radar systems and we have also aircraft trainer system (something like expensive game on PC :-D) which use also US army in new conquered countries to train new pilots there.
Susan
This machine is good for dead bodies....
[url=http://www.evpu.sk/english/military-and-security-program]And this can help attacking from far
distanace but no rockets[/url]
Guys... can you give this information to your ministry of war/peace so our employment can grow too ?
Please dont buy it just from US, UK, Fr and Ger.
thx :-)
And this can help you too maybe..for Palestinian neighbours :-)
or maybe something more luxury in historical part of country :-)
That fences are really strong and cheap. Sand and air can not damage them and you can also use electricity moduls !!
I hope that I help.
or maybe something more luxury in historical part of country :-)
That fences are really strong and cheap. Sand and air can not damage them and you can also use electricity moduls !!
I hope that I help.