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Yes, they were inconsistent. And I agree that the founding fathers have a fundamental role in the american mythos.
But that doesn't mean that the fundamentals of today's American society are their views. Quite a lot of things have changed since then. Even more important things, then gun laws.
For example Abe Lincoln's views are also part of the fundamentals you're talking about. And America has a Central Bank, companies can't form cartels, monopolies, etc.
History didn't stop when the USA was founded. As a matter of fact, it keeps going on. Society always keeps changing and laws shall follow it.
But that doesn't mean that the fundamentals of today's American society are their views. Quite a lot of things have changed since then. Even more important things, then gun laws.
For example Abe Lincoln's views are also part of the fundamentals you're talking about. And America has a Central Bank, companies can't form cartels, monopolies, etc.
History didn't stop when the USA was founded. As a matter of fact, it keeps going on. Society always keeps changing and laws shall follow it.
Yes, they were inconsistent. And I agree that the founding fathers have a fundamental role in the american mythos.
The problem is that Charles is looking at the States through European glasses. He asked me why the citizens would need guns themselves to protect them, even against the government. The answer lies in the past. The American past.
The problem is that Charles is looking at the States through European glasses. He asked me why the citizens would need guns themselves to protect them, even against the government. The answer lies in the past. The American past.
present day's American society =/= present day's European society
doesn't mean
present day's American society = past American society
doesn't mean
present day's American society = past American society
have you ever been in the states? It seems you don't know the states.
I have friends there (DC, LA, NY), been to the states 3 times. There is more police pro capita then in Belgium or the Netherlands. Just try speeding on a deserted highway ...
Police can be there quick. And they will be there quick.
Have you ever been to states like Colorado, Arizona, Montana?
On the country side life is different, and so is the availability of law enforcement.
There are plenty of areas in the US where the police will take 20-30 minutes to get to. If you are lucky to be able to alert them in the first place, that is.....
Allthough I think that guns should be limited to the state, I can understand where the opinion of some of the pro-gun people in the US comes from.
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I have friends there (DC, LA, NY), been to the states 3 times. There is more police pro capita then in Belgium or the Netherlands. Just try speeding on a deserted highway ...
Police can be there quick. And they will be there quick.
Have you ever been to states like Colorado, Arizona, Montana?
On the country side life is different, and so is the availability of law enforcement.
There are plenty of areas in the US where the police will take 20-30 minutes to get to. If you are lucky to be able to alert them in the first place, that is.....
Allthough I think that guns should be limited to the state, I can understand where the opinion of some of the pro-gun people in the US comes from.
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present day's American society =/= present day's European society doesn't mean present day's American society = past American society
Of course. But Charles is simply denying the American past and how the American society was built.
Of course. But Charles is simply denying the American past and how the American society was built.
i have been in Colorado. Concretly, in a vilage called louisville. Also spent some time in the 100 mile city ( 100 milles over sea) : Denver
in fact i shoted many guns in there, and rifles and so on, i met a catalonian girl who was spending summer with an irish-american family ( people usually is sth-american not only american ), i have sympathy with the full family, specially the father, ex marine who spent a lot of time with me speaikng about poltics, well and with the girl of course, they invited me many times to sleep in their house because my relation with the catalonian girl
so i have been there and i think that kids bein able to shoot a gun is brainless
ps: i was there a year later the tragedy of colorado, 1999 i guess it was, i was only 18 , i met fantastic and open people, with that family and some polish-american couple, farmers ( modern farm) and guns lovers, i shot a winchester ( rifle), an smith&wesson 38 gun, with "tambor" not automatich, you know like in the cow boy films, and many other things
shooting ( to cans, to a flying plate) gives adrenaline, its understable and i experimented that
Buuuuut.....not controll of guns is brainless, like any psichotic can have a gun, plus kids or other not developed humas, the same, brainless
usually when someone has not more arguments then this someone uses the "ad homine argument" like "yu dont understund he states because you see them with european glases" , i have been there and i have my own opinion about the topic
in fact i shoted many guns in there, and rifles and so on, i met a catalonian girl who was spending summer with an irish-american family ( people usually is sth-american not only american ), i have sympathy with the full family, specially the father, ex marine who spent a lot of time with me speaikng about poltics, well and with the girl of course, they invited me many times to sleep in their house because my relation with the catalonian girl
so i have been there and i think that kids bein able to shoot a gun is brainless
ps: i was there a year later the tragedy of colorado, 1999 i guess it was, i was only 18 , i met fantastic and open people, with that family and some polish-american couple, farmers ( modern farm) and guns lovers, i shot a winchester ( rifle), an smith&wesson 38 gun, with "tambor" not automatich, you know like in the cow boy films, and many other things
shooting ( to cans, to a flying plate) gives adrenaline, its understable and i experimented that
Buuuuut.....not controll of guns is brainless, like any psichotic can have a gun, plus kids or other not developed humas, the same, brainless
usually when someone has not more arguments then this someone uses the "ad homine argument" like "yu dont understund he states because you see them with european glases" , i have been there and i have my own opinion about the topic
But Charles is simply denying the American past and how the American society was built.
noone but you is speaking about how america was built. Charles was giving his opinion about: not controll when sellin guns, or some brain control and not past killing control
noone but you is speaking about how america was built. Charles was giving his opinion about: not controll when sellin guns, or some brain control and not past killing control
I'm saying this to Charles. Charles genuinely does not understand the point of view of those American gun freaks.
I've never shot a gun, and quite frankly, I do not intend to ever do so.
I've never shot a gun, and quite frankly, I do not intend to ever do so.
i have been in Colorado. Concretly, in a vilage called louisville. Also spent some time in the 100 mile city ( 100 milles over sea) : Denver
Actualy, it is one mile. ;)
I'm not saying I disagree with your opinion on guns and childeren, just want to add a different perspective. :)
Louiseville is still in the more populated plains of Colorado. Try going into the Rockies area and you will quickly see that law enforcement is suddenly not at your finger tips..... (And no, I do not mean the populated ski areas. :) )
Montana is even worse, with huge areas of woods, and only small settlements that remotely live up to or European view of a town in the US.
Again: I'm not trying to defend the right to own and carry weapons. Just want to add some balance to the European view most of us have on this forum....
Actualy, it is one mile. ;)
I'm not saying I disagree with your opinion on guns and childeren, just want to add a different perspective. :)
Louiseville is still in the more populated plains of Colorado. Try going into the Rockies area and you will quickly see that law enforcement is suddenly not at your finger tips..... (And no, I do not mean the populated ski areas. :) )
Montana is even worse, with huge areas of woods, and only small settlements that remotely live up to or European view of a town in the US.
Again: I'm not trying to defend the right to own and carry weapons. Just want to add some balance to the European view most of us have on this forum....
I think most people that live in the Alps or in mountain parts of southern Italy are isolated quite the same.. (if you think that the first policeman can arrive in hours..)
The question is if being armed increase or decrease your security.
I think that we can agree for sure, that it increase the sense of security, but the discussion must foucus if this sensation it's true in reality.
some real data
The question is if being armed increase or decrease your security.
I think that we can agree for sure, that it increase the sense of security, but the discussion must foucus if this sensation it's true in reality.
some real data
More interesting news from around the world. Fortunately, many people do realise that "“The rights of children trump the right to children”.
French homosexuals demonstrate against same-sex ‘marriage’
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French homosexuals demonstrate against same-sex ‘marriage’
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o yeah one mile city, i was there many years ago : )
in the colorado rapids stadium ( soccer as they say), there was all the sits in blue but the seats at one mile high in white
in the colorado rapids stadium ( soccer as they say), there was all the sits in blue but the seats at one mile high in white
The famous presidental elections in the Czech republic ended. First time, it was direct citezens´ vote. Two candidates, which can be generally described as poor, who can just attack you and lie when you ask them about something uncomfortable. Leftist Zeman, politician, supported by current president Klaus (rightist, politician) against "unpolitical" right-middle candidate (Scandinavian and EU model - we don´t need an opposition, we all are friends, so don´t complane) Schwarzenberg, loved by supporters of leftist Havel, previous president. That´s in short.
Zeman won, what is better for me, but generally, I know the truth is that "in Brussels? They will happily forget about Czechs again when they stop making troubles" like one politologist said in the Lisbon dictate ("treaty") era.. :)
Zeman won, what is better for me, but generally, I know the truth is that "in Brussels? They will happily forget about Czechs again when they stop making troubles" like one politologist said in the Lisbon dictate ("treaty") era.. :)
I suppose Zeman represent your nation more suitable :). But I like Karel's politicians ideas more.
Btw, who know why france is attacking in Mali? Reason and background of.conflict