Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

M5S, Grillo's party, is not supposed to be a comic party, it is a serious party which brings ideas shared by many italians but not by other parties, such us, for instance:
- the need to reduce the enormous salaries of our politician
- the need to change the rules of eletions
- avoiding criminals to be elected
- creating a law that avoids a person to be prime minister while owning/controlling most of the TVs and magazines and newspapers (for instance Berlusconi).

Actually, the results of M5S can be very positive for Italy as after 20 years the monopoly of Berlusconi+leftparty has finally been broken.

Finally, I would like to observe, that in Italy, in the past (but 1 year after poland) we actually had a "strange" pary, the "Partito dell'amore leaded by 2 famous porn actresses: Moana Pozzi and Cicciolina.

I very much welcome a party that wants to 'clean up' political Italy.

But the problem is that M5S does not want to forma a government. And Bersani and Berlusconi are never going to form a government. If M5S doesn't want to form a government and left and right cannot form one, there is nothing left than new elections. And those would probably not change anything.

A govern can exist also without an absolute majority, as it happened for 50 years in Italy before the raising of Berlusconi, then he convinced everyone that a country cannot go forward without a majority of 51%.
Besides, who said that M5S does not want to form a govern? Maybe if they are proposed to do it serously by Napolitano then they will accept it.

And Bersani and Berlusconi are never going to form a government.

they were togheter in Monti's government until yesterday..
they can, they are pretty the same.. they just would like to avoid it because it means a big loss in next elections-

M5S ideas sound really nice, however I always disagree to reduce the salaries of politicians. That just means, they'll be more interested in corruption. I think, leading politicians salaries should match the leading managers salaries from the private sector, so maybe there would be more adequate candidates on elections, not only rent-seekers.

Cicciolina :D

After that she tried her luck in Hungary too, as an independent candidate, but she wasn't elected into our parliament. Although she seemed incredibly stupid, she wouldn't be much worse than our "normal" politicians imo.

That just means, they'll be more interested in corruption.

cost of parliament for citizen:



would you say that in Italy we have less corruption than Germany or France?

Why would I say that? I didn't say that it's the only reason for corruption.

I want to say that paying politician a lot for having them not corruptible is not working.
In fact the more you get rich with politics the more you'll attract people to politic that want money over all!

Our present government has lowered the salaries of the highest government officials, they made a maximum cap and they were hyping it. Of course it didn't solve anything, slowly and silently they gave themselves different kind of further bonuses, exceptions, etc, so their income grown higher, the system became more complicated, and now they can get more money with theoretically lower salaries.

As I've read it, your system is pretty complicated too, and even retired politicians get loads of money (like if they deserve it). What use does it have?

From a more complicated system (like yours) politicians steal more. So I still think it would be better, more transparent and even cheaper, if their normal salaries would be higher and instead you would get rid of all their little allowances, bonuses and other shenanigans.

one of the purposes of M5S was to calculate the difference of richness of politicians before and after they were in politics, to ask the difference back (I'm simplyfing it obviously!)

But they would continue to steal anyway, giving money to familiars or friends..

But they would continue to steal anyway, giving money to familiars or friends..


You can be sure in that. And there's this other demand:

- creating a law that avoids a person to be prime minister while owning/controlling most of the TVs and magazines and newspapers

Conflict of interest laws exist in Hungary since 1990. That means for example, that politicians can't own or lead ANY profit driven company, including the media. I agree with that. But that's not enough, because oligarchs can sponsor politicians in many ways, so they pay it back with government purchases, and like you said, other companies are owned by the politicians family members / friends.

So maybe Berlusconi will have to find a wife for the rest of his life. ;)

I would also add one thing to what el_pupe already explained: in Italy there are between 1.5-2 milions of persons working as politicians. It is not only a matter fo single salaries, but also a matter of having too many politicians

There is quite a simple solution: take the power away from politicians (and pay them less of course).

to whom?

Nobody.

I see.