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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
I wonder if you can really choose what to do.
Cuba is a powerless flag. Under it some other countries hides theirselves.
Cuba is a powerless flag. Under it some other countries hides theirselves.
I don't know. There are reasons why some of us consider it unlikely for a country like Cuba to exert colonial influence over the government of a much more powerful country like Venezuela. We may be wrong, but I don't really think some cartoon will change our minds.
I mean, I can draw Obama being guided by the ghost of Frank Sinatra if I want to :P
I mean, I can draw Obama being guided by the ghost of Frank Sinatra if I want to :P
:) I dont trying to convinced you with a cartoon, I wrote some facts and some rumors of what "we" believed because we´re living here, of course we can´t have all the facts. If that´s so it will be a complete scandal and would turn the luck of this government. That´s what I think.
And if it was a clear fact, the government will hide it because there´s no justice for guvernamental´s followers or personal. I will give you an example: What happend with the case of the guy caught in argentina with a suitcase with 800.000$ in the airport?
The guy is in jail in USA but where are the resposible heads? the guy caught is named "Antonini Wilson" and he spokes... he says everything. The suitcase was the last to enter Argentina, the completed money was 5 millon $ to finance CFK´s electoral campaigne, the money was sent from PDVSA, the Venezuelan Oil Company and Wilson say all the names.
Are one of this guys in jail? No, none of them. Why? because the justice isn´t blind in my country. Because the public powers belongs to the government, the justice tribunal dont make any judgment against any guvernamental employee or boss or whatever position has. The president of the National Electoral Council -has to be like a referee -is a militant of the government itself.
So, we dont expect the extra influence with Cuba will be officially announced. The real thing is we had trouble to discover where ends the ass of the venezuelan government and where the cuban boot start
And if it was a clear fact, the government will hide it because there´s no justice for guvernamental´s followers or personal. I will give you an example: What happend with the case of the guy caught in argentina with a suitcase with 800.000$ in the airport?
The guy is in jail in USA but where are the resposible heads? the guy caught is named "Antonini Wilson" and he spokes... he says everything. The suitcase was the last to enter Argentina, the completed money was 5 millon $ to finance CFK´s electoral campaigne, the money was sent from PDVSA, the Venezuelan Oil Company and Wilson say all the names.
Are one of this guys in jail? No, none of them. Why? because the justice isn´t blind in my country. Because the public powers belongs to the government, the justice tribunal dont make any judgment against any guvernamental employee or boss or whatever position has. The president of the National Electoral Council -has to be like a referee -is a militant of the government itself.
So, we dont expect the extra influence with Cuba will be officially announced. The real thing is we had trouble to discover where ends the ass of the venezuelan government and where the cuban boot start
OK. But your example is exactly what we are saying: Venezuela using its oil money to influence other countries' politics. In that case, Chávez was supporting the Kirchners' campaign. And our government supported him and his party whenever needed, and now quickly recognized Maduro, etc.
You are saying that with Cuba is the opposite than with Argentina, that Venezuela is the junior partner in that case. I just don't see it. Not because it's not officially announced, but just because it makes no sense :P For me, it is much easier to believe that the relationship with Cuba is the same as with Argentina, as both the Argnetinian and the Cuban governments depend on Venezuela's "benevolence" to some extent.
You are saying that with Cuba is the opposite than with Argentina, that Venezuela is the junior partner in that case. I just don't see it. Not because it's not officially announced, but just because it makes no sense :P For me, it is much easier to believe that the relationship with Cuba is the same as with Argentina, as both the Argnetinian and the Cuban governments depend on Venezuela's "benevolence" to some extent.
I respect that opinion, and I would be agreed in that if we hosted argentinian flags across the country and almost every Maduro´s speech will end with a "viva argentina" like he say "viva cuba" so we can say the relationship with cuba is the same kind with argentina. I think is a huge diference. Argentina needs Maduro in Venezuela but not so badly like cuba needs him.
so..? do you agree do you have a democracy, even your "leader" lost? or you dont?
international viewers said that the votation was clean, even you want a re-count of votes and that viewers say is fine the re-count, they said the elections were free and clean, so, even if the one who has won you dont like him, thats democracy
i think chavez is a populist and maduro too , but you are not cuba
do you know that refrain.."tanto fue el cántaro a la fuente que al final se rompió" so, claiming veezuela is going to be like cuba so many times, its seems , from outside, that oppositer want more your country being cuba than the chavists: see the refrain
and yeah, i dont like the populis of chavez, neither the wanting of controlling all the Tv channels and newspapers, like the italian guy was doing with the tv, but it dosent convert your country in cuba, for fortune
cuba needs many more venezuela than the opposite
international viewers said that the votation was clean, even you want a re-count of votes and that viewers say is fine the re-count, they said the elections were free and clean, so, even if the one who has won you dont like him, thats democracy
i think chavez is a populist and maduro too , but you are not cuba
do you know that refrain.."tanto fue el cántaro a la fuente que al final se rompió" so, claiming veezuela is going to be like cuba so many times, its seems , from outside, that oppositer want more your country being cuba than the chavists: see the refrain
and yeah, i dont like the populis of chavez, neither the wanting of controlling all the Tv channels and newspapers, like the italian guy was doing with the tv, but it dosent convert your country in cuba, for fortune
cuba needs many more venezuela than the opposite
Democracy and democracy are two. It's not because you can vote that you live in a democracy.
its a need, but there are anothers, like the need os letting oppositers to go into the election, having freedom of speech etc
international viewers said that the votation was clean, even you want a re-count of votes and that viewers say is fine the re-count, they said the elections were free and clean, so, even if the one who has won you dont like him, thats democracy
this is a misunderstanding because I didnt watch any international viewer saying this process was "clean". They said they are concerned because the elections has a LOT of irregularities and Maduro Should not be proclame winer until a recounting of votes will be made. This was made in a press conference the monday after elections day. You can watch this article in spanish
http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/162830/veedores-internacionales-la-legitimidad-de-maduro-esta-sujeta-a-un-proceso-de-auditoria-que-el-ha-aceptado/
so..? do you agree do you have a democracy, even your "leader" lost? or you dont?
interesting, I dont think the international press will informe about what was next to the elections. I will explain a little more,this is beyond the cuba thing.
Oposition leader organized a "civilized" (acording to his words) march to the CNE (National electoral council) to claim a recounting of the votes. Immediately Maduro acuse him to provoke violence across the country and he says he wont let not march goes to nowhere.
So, the right to protest and free express was denied. Maduro acuse the oposition to organized a coupe d´state and he frustrates it. Even worst, he will group the people that supports him in the streets so no oposition march goes to the CNE.
So, we cannot go to the streets but the people supporting goberment CAN, and even to stop another people.
Next point
The goverment acuses oposition leader of "fascist" saying if he won he will fired all public employees from their works.
What happend next? government is LOOKING for all public employees that voted against the oposition leader and menaced to fired them for traitors of the revolution!
There´s no way the government knows for who everybody votes because we presume is secret, but what is the goverment strategy? Watch all social networks accounts from the public employees like twitter and facebook and read all comments against the government so there´s a lot o people deleting comments and pictures. I got proof of this, some conversations was recorded, whenever you want I can show you.
Democracy uh?
Next point... CONATEL, the organism wich attends the radioelectric frequency in Venezuela and grants the consesion to media and internet is publishing a law that all people using internet and publish pictures against the goverment and comments that generates violence will be punish by prision.
I dont know but seems to me they are trying to prohibited social networks to organized another Thahir square.
That is democracy for you? I can´t go to the street "pacifically" because the government tells Im want a coupe d´state. If I would be public employee I´ll have my bosses chasing me because Im a traitor. And I can´t share picts against the goverment and proof of fraud in venezuelan elections because I can go to prision
So? If you question me, I would say we are loosing our freedom and this is starting to see has another thing diferent that democracy
this is a misunderstanding because I didnt watch any international viewer saying this process was "clean". They said they are concerned because the elections has a LOT of irregularities and Maduro Should not be proclame winer until a recounting of votes will be made. This was made in a press conference the monday after elections day. You can watch this article in spanish
http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/162830/veedores-internacionales-la-legitimidad-de-maduro-esta-sujeta-a-un-proceso-de-auditoria-que-el-ha-aceptado/
so..? do you agree do you have a democracy, even your "leader" lost? or you dont?
interesting, I dont think the international press will informe about what was next to the elections. I will explain a little more,this is beyond the cuba thing.
Oposition leader organized a "civilized" (acording to his words) march to the CNE (National electoral council) to claim a recounting of the votes. Immediately Maduro acuse him to provoke violence across the country and he says he wont let not march goes to nowhere.
So, the right to protest and free express was denied. Maduro acuse the oposition to organized a coupe d´state and he frustrates it. Even worst, he will group the people that supports him in the streets so no oposition march goes to the CNE.
So, we cannot go to the streets but the people supporting goberment CAN, and even to stop another people.
Next point
The goverment acuses oposition leader of "fascist" saying if he won he will fired all public employees from their works.
What happend next? government is LOOKING for all public employees that voted against the oposition leader and menaced to fired them for traitors of the revolution!
There´s no way the government knows for who everybody votes because we presume is secret, but what is the goverment strategy? Watch all social networks accounts from the public employees like twitter and facebook and read all comments against the government so there´s a lot o people deleting comments and pictures. I got proof of this, some conversations was recorded, whenever you want I can show you.
Democracy uh?
Next point... CONATEL, the organism wich attends the radioelectric frequency in Venezuela and grants the consesion to media and internet is publishing a law that all people using internet and publish pictures against the goverment and comments that generates violence will be punish by prision.
I dont know but seems to me they are trying to prohibited social networks to organized another Thahir square.
That is democracy for you? I can´t go to the street "pacifically" because the government tells Im want a coupe d´state. If I would be public employee I´ll have my bosses chasing me because Im a traitor. And I can´t share picts against the goverment and proof of fraud in venezuelan elections because I can go to prision
So? If you question me, I would say we are loosing our freedom and this is starting to see has another thing diferent that democracy
another "fact"
I presume in every democratic country, If some of the parts is desagreed with the elections result and a recounting or audit should be made, I "think" the most logical thing will be "dont proclaim" a winner yet or "dont legitimate" until the verification process will end.
That doesnt happend in Venezuela. The electoral council asume an audit of 46% of the electoral data, not the 100%, they asume just an audit, not the recounting of votes. Im wondering why just a 46%...?
So, the asuming just a 46%, but they proclaimed maduro as winner and the next day all "chulos" of Venezuela came to an act in the national congress to legitimated the "new president". Next day of this "ilegal" act the electoral council says "we start the monday this audit of 46% of the electoral data, but whatever the result will be, we ain´t gonna change the decision. If oposition will want to impugn the results after the audit, they can go to the Venezuelan supreme court"
and the supreme court declare 6 days ago they will not allow any impugnation of the electoral results under any circunstances.
what is this??
I presume in every democratic country, If some of the parts is desagreed with the elections result and a recounting or audit should be made, I "think" the most logical thing will be "dont proclaim" a winner yet or "dont legitimate" until the verification process will end.
That doesnt happend in Venezuela. The electoral council asume an audit of 46% of the electoral data, not the 100%, they asume just an audit, not the recounting of votes. Im wondering why just a 46%...?
So, the asuming just a 46%, but they proclaimed maduro as winner and the next day all "chulos" of Venezuela came to an act in the national congress to legitimated the "new president". Next day of this "ilegal" act the electoral council says "we start the monday this audit of 46% of the electoral data, but whatever the result will be, we ain´t gonna change the decision. If oposition will want to impugn the results after the audit, they can go to the Venezuelan supreme court"
and the supreme court declare 6 days ago they will not allow any impugnation of the electoral results under any circunstances.
what is this??
I presume in every democratic country, If some of the parts is desagreed with the elections result and a recounting or audit should be made, I "think" the most logical thing will be "dont proclaim" a winner yet or "dont legitimate" until the verification process will end
well, in the USA when Bush election there was not any recount even in Florida etc
about the international viewer saying the election was clean, i saw Bono saying this ( jose Bono, not the U2 singer xD )
I see...
Jose bono was invited by the venezuelan electoral council, from what "I read", Bono belongs from a socialist party and another "wacthers" invited by the electoral council are "leftist".
I would see another watchers opinions, the one you watched is clearly parcialized in favor to continues this "socialism chaos" in my country. I would not trust in noone the government bring as a watcher
Jose bono was invited by the venezuelan electoral council, from what "I read", Bono belongs from a socialist party and another "wacthers" invited by the electoral council are "leftist".
I would see another watchers opinions, the one you watched is clearly parcialized in favor to continues this "socialism chaos" in my country. I would not trust in noone the government bring as a watcher
he belongs to a party which refuse marxim in the finall 70s, now is like social democracy and that bald guy is like in the center of that party, the most soft leftist on thta left-center party